1
00:00:09,050 --> 00:00:12,554
The level of effects is so high right now
2
00:00:12,721 --> 00:00:17,058
that the only limitation is
basically money and imagination.
3
00:00:17,142 --> 00:00:18,893
It's almost like we've come full circle.
4
00:00:19,019 --> 00:00:22,063
We now have to be telling
a damn good story with good characters,
5
00:00:22,147 --> 00:00:23,648
and the effects are more of a given.
6
00:00:23,732 --> 00:00:27,736
You can no longer earn
somebody's sense of satisfaction
7
00:00:27,819 --> 00:00:29,529
just because you dazzled them visually.
8
00:00:29,612 --> 00:00:33,450
I really believe that effects
need to service the story.
9
00:00:33,575 --> 00:00:38,455
When the effects become the story,
we've lost our way.
10
00:00:38,621 --> 00:00:41,958
The story is still the story
is still the story is still the story.
11
00:00:42,042 --> 00:00:43,752
Whether you write it in pencil
12
00:00:43,877 --> 00:00:46,671
or you write it in ink,
it's the same story.
13
00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:38,848
You can never pinpoint
how or why things happen.
14
00:01:38,932 --> 00:01:42,560
And there's always a collision
of circumstances,
15
00:01:42,644 --> 00:01:46,731
a little bit of luck.
Sometimes something goes wrong
16
00:01:46,898 --> 00:01:49,859
that actually sets you on another course,
17
00:01:49,943 --> 00:01:55,115
and in this case, we had started
18
00:01:55,198 --> 00:01:57,117
talking about doing Jurassic Park.
19
00:01:57,575 --> 00:02:02,997
We convinced Stan Winston and Dennis Muren
at ILM to work together.
20
00:02:05,750 --> 00:02:08,128
Steven Spielberg
always has the A-team.
21
00:02:08,211 --> 00:02:10,421
He had the four best in their arenas.
22
00:02:10,713 --> 00:02:13,800
The four horsemen there.
You got Stan Winston.
23
00:02:13,883 --> 00:02:17,720
He's creature creator builder
par excellence, he's the best around.
24
00:02:17,929 --> 00:02:22,976
He got Phil Tippett. He's Mr. Creature
animator, puppeteer, stop motion.
25
00:02:23,059 --> 00:02:27,063
He's the guy. You got Michael Lantieri,
who's the practical effects guy.
26
00:02:27,147 --> 00:02:29,649
And you got Dennis Muren.
He's the visual effects wizard
27
00:02:29,774 --> 00:02:31,442
that can take the stuff these people do
28
00:02:31,526 --> 00:02:33,862
and make it all work together
and look like it's real.
29
00:02:33,945 --> 00:02:38,324
I've heard anecdotally that Steven
was looking for someone that could help
30
00:02:38,408 --> 00:02:43,037
with the dinosaurs,
and George said, "Phil's your guy."
31
00:02:43,580 --> 00:02:47,208
I was completely ready to go down
the Phil Tippett route
32
00:02:47,292 --> 00:02:51,671
to be able to create these animals
in all the wide shots that Stan Winston
33
00:02:51,754 --> 00:02:54,924
wasn't creating in his monster shop.
34
00:02:55,425 --> 00:02:58,052
At that point in time,
with that technology,
35
00:02:58,136 --> 00:03:02,932
we were going to use the stop motion
puppet and high speed miniatures.
36
00:03:03,057 --> 00:03:06,060
Just going to go stop motion.
We could go in and help
37
00:03:06,144 --> 00:03:08,646
some of the animation
as a post-production thing,
38
00:03:08,771 --> 00:03:11,274
to help smooth it out and make it better.
39
00:03:11,357 --> 00:03:13,943
Dennis goes, "Okay,
we've got to figure out what to do,"
40
00:03:14,027 --> 00:03:15,528
"so this doesn't look like"
41
00:03:15,612 --> 00:03:18,031
"the stop motion pictures of
before Ray Harryhausen."
42
00:03:18,114 --> 00:03:21,993
"So you guys can add the blur," and I go,
"Yeah, sure we can add the blur."
43
00:03:22,076 --> 00:03:26,164
But my belief was, man, we've already done
stuff that's so far advanced from that.
44
00:03:26,247 --> 00:03:28,374
Why are we saying
this is what we're going to do?
45
00:03:28,458 --> 00:03:30,418
Well, we can do CG dinosaurs.
46
00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:33,922
I was very reluctant
to even think about doing
47
00:03:34,005 --> 00:03:37,217
the CG or computer graphics thing
at the beginning of it.
48
00:03:37,634 --> 00:03:41,804
Didn't seem like we were ready for a show
that big and much more complicated
49
00:03:41,888 --> 00:03:42,889
than Terminator 2.
50
00:03:43,264 --> 00:03:44,557
Dennis is a believer,
51
00:03:44,641 --> 00:03:48,686
but he's a realist, so he's like...
You know, we did The Abyss,
52
00:03:48,770 --> 00:03:52,941
we did T2,
but those are alien hard surfaces.
53
00:03:54,317 --> 00:03:57,654
They're not natural, organic,
breathing, sweating, bleeding things.
54
00:03:57,820 --> 00:04:00,031
We haven't really done that successfully.
55
00:04:00,281 --> 00:04:01,366
I don't know.
56
00:04:01,449 --> 00:04:04,911
The other point is that they've already
pushed the project in a direction.
57
00:04:04,994 --> 00:04:08,414
They spent a lot of time and money.
They're already building huge things.
58
00:04:08,498 --> 00:04:12,001
But what I said to Spaz is,
"We cannot not try."
59
00:04:12,794 --> 00:04:16,965
So after hours, basically,
we began building the bones of the T. Rex.
60
00:04:20,843 --> 00:04:22,053
I started with bones.
61
00:04:22,136 --> 00:04:24,889
I scan in a T. Rex mukada,
some perfect specimen
62
00:04:25,014 --> 00:04:27,558
that they had found flat
on a high tech scanner.
63
00:04:28,559 --> 00:04:30,895
Put it up on my monitor
and built the bones,
64
00:04:30,979 --> 00:04:33,690
made him 3D, had a great pose, you know,
65
00:04:33,815 --> 00:04:37,277
and then started animating it
as a forward kinematic process.
66
00:04:37,527 --> 00:04:39,946
So I had a walking Rex on bones.
67
00:04:40,029 --> 00:04:43,283
I'm pretty sure that Dennis
saw the walking bones.
68
00:04:43,366 --> 00:04:45,868
But again, it's kind of like,
"Okay, that's really cool,"
69
00:04:45,952 --> 00:04:47,370
"you know, but living, breathing."
70
00:04:47,453 --> 00:04:49,122
We're not doing skeletons.
71
00:04:49,205 --> 00:04:51,207
Phil Tippett was way down the road
72
00:04:51,916 --> 00:04:55,420
with his stop motion,
and they were looking really good.
73
00:04:55,962 --> 00:04:58,715
Phil Tippett is working away.
74
00:04:59,465 --> 00:05:01,759
Stan Winston is working away.
75
00:05:02,010 --> 00:05:04,304
We're pulling every single tool together
76
00:05:04,387 --> 00:05:07,765
to figure this out
and seeing shot for shot what can work.
77
00:05:07,849 --> 00:05:11,936
Things were now moving. Kathy Kennedy
was coming up once in a while.
78
00:05:13,896 --> 00:05:15,398
I knew they were coming up,
79
00:05:15,481 --> 00:05:19,444
Kathleen Kennedy, Frank Marshall,
on November 14th, 1991.
80
00:05:19,527 --> 00:05:23,489
They were like an ensemble
moving through, right? The company.
81
00:05:23,573 --> 00:05:25,700
And I knew where they were
in C building here.
82
00:05:25,783 --> 00:05:27,702
So this is kind of this big moment.
83
00:05:27,994 --> 00:05:32,332
No one's going to present this idea
because no one believes in it.
84
00:05:32,790 --> 00:05:35,960
So I had a monitor position
and I had the cycle going,
85
00:05:36,044 --> 00:05:39,339
this walking T. Rex in bone
and they came walking in,
86
00:05:39,464 --> 00:05:41,090
and it was a total ambush.
87
00:05:41,174 --> 00:05:43,551
There's this room we have
where we screen these clips
88
00:05:43,634 --> 00:05:46,220
and they'll be on monitors
and they could be on a loop.
89
00:05:46,304 --> 00:05:49,057
People can see them and go,
"I like that or I don't like that."
90
00:05:49,140 --> 00:05:50,641
She was looking at something else.
91
00:05:50,725 --> 00:05:53,728
Go into this room and there's this kid
sitting there, it looks like,
92
00:05:53,811 --> 00:05:56,981
and he's really a kid,
and he's manipulating everything.
93
00:05:57,106 --> 00:06:00,026
And Dennis and I are staring
at this computer screen.
94
00:06:00,443 --> 00:06:03,863
I can remember her saying,
"What's going on with that?"
95
00:06:03,946 --> 00:06:06,866
"That's a dinosaur bone.
I mean, that's part of Jurassic, right?"
96
00:06:06,991 --> 00:06:07,992
"So what is that?"
97
00:06:08,117 --> 00:06:11,913
I said, I'm just messing around like that,
you know, and she patted me on the back
98
00:06:11,996 --> 00:06:14,332
and she goes,
"You have a very bright future."
99
00:06:14,415 --> 00:06:16,084
That's what she said.
100
00:06:16,334 --> 00:06:20,588
The first thing, of course, I said to
Dennis was, "Well, what does this mean?"
101
00:06:21,089 --> 00:06:24,759
"Can we do some shots this way?
What? How's this going to work?"
102
00:06:25,301 --> 00:06:28,805
And he said, "We're working on something
to show Steven."
103
00:06:29,097 --> 00:06:30,848
They ended up speeding up the test,
104
00:06:30,932 --> 00:06:34,102
doing it faster and faster,
and it ended up working
105
00:06:34,185 --> 00:06:37,480
at every step of the way that it was
sort of undeniable that they...
106
00:06:37,563 --> 00:06:42,402
Just had to, like, consider it,
even though Phil was starting on the show
107
00:06:42,485 --> 00:06:45,196
and his company was gearing up
and everything like that.
108
00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,365
Dennis was
in a very difficult position,
109
00:06:47,448 --> 00:06:51,786
you can imagine, because here
we are doing this clandestine thing.
110
00:06:51,869 --> 00:06:56,249
Yet his buddy is supposed to be doing
the entire film in stop motion, you know,
111
00:06:56,332 --> 00:06:58,751
and we're sneaking around doing this,
you know.
112
00:07:02,213 --> 00:07:04,257
It was Mark and Steve
113
00:07:04,340 --> 00:07:08,886
that had a belief that they could
make dinosaurs, and they did.
114
00:07:08,970 --> 00:07:15,393
They pulled it off terrifically well.
But there was a bit of antagonism there,
115
00:07:15,476 --> 00:07:19,355
and it was kind of, like,
the old gunslinger.
116
00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:22,817
And, you know, the new one, you know,
117
00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:28,364
it was like there was a competition
that I thought was like, "Why?"
118
00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:31,784
Phil Tippett. In those days,
he did not believe
119
00:07:31,868 --> 00:07:34,495
in the computer's ability
to create lifelike creatures.
120
00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:38,416
He believed that the linearity,
the perfectness,
121
00:07:38,541 --> 00:07:40,960
the mathematical aspect of computers
122
00:07:41,043 --> 00:07:44,297
makes them create things
that have that characteristic,
123
00:07:44,881 --> 00:07:46,507
and things like the liquid metal man.
124
00:07:46,632 --> 00:07:47,675
Get out.
125
00:07:47,758 --> 00:07:49,903
Whereas living, breathing creatures
do unexpected things,
126
00:07:49,927 --> 00:07:52,722
don't behave the way you want
when they trip or break their leg.
127
00:07:52,805 --> 00:07:54,182
It looks all ugly and messed up.
128
00:07:54,265 --> 00:07:59,520
He was sort of philosophically
against that approach.
129
00:07:59,645 --> 00:08:01,856
He was dealing with this thing
that he saw as being,
130
00:08:01,939 --> 00:08:04,609
you know, a Voldemort. Computers, right?
131
00:08:04,692 --> 00:08:06,944
You know, I'd see him there
working on the computer
132
00:08:07,028 --> 00:08:11,491
with the mouse and all this stuff
and just...
133
00:08:11,616 --> 00:08:14,827
And what I visualized was like,
you'd be saying,
134
00:08:14,911 --> 00:08:16,370
"Okay, well, if you're a cowboy
135
00:08:16,454 --> 00:08:19,582
"and you have two six-guns,
let's see you shoot that tin can
136
00:08:19,665 --> 00:08:22,835
"off that post 100 feet away."
And they go like...
137
00:08:26,589 --> 00:08:28,758
I was like, "Well,
why didn't you shoot the can?
138
00:08:28,841 --> 00:08:32,678
"Well, I don't have any bullets."
"But I do this really well."
139
00:08:38,351 --> 00:08:40,228
So what happened then is now
140
00:08:40,311 --> 00:08:44,440
the project became official,
as in sort of an experiment at ILM.
141
00:08:44,607 --> 00:08:47,235
Obviously, Dennis had talked
to Spielberg about it,
142
00:08:47,318 --> 00:08:50,780
and so more money
had secretly come to ILM,
143
00:08:50,988 --> 00:08:54,075
and we find out that they want us
to build the whole skin.
144
00:08:54,283 --> 00:08:58,454
I have heard Dennis Muren say
that the view paint,
145
00:08:58,538 --> 00:09:02,708
the texture painting, was the thing
that made the transformation for Jurassic.
146
00:09:02,792 --> 00:09:06,629
It took a long time, I think it was
six months to paint one dinosaur.
147
00:09:11,551 --> 00:09:17,056
They originally had planned to do much
more of the texturing of the animals,
148
00:09:17,139 --> 00:09:20,726
procedurally with the computer
by saying, "Here is a pattern."
149
00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:22,937
"Repeat this pattern all over the animal."
150
00:09:23,020 --> 00:09:25,815
But the problem with that
is that it was too repetitious,
151
00:09:25,898 --> 00:09:28,234
it was too machine-like.
152
00:09:28,317 --> 00:09:31,112
We really needed some more
artistic freedom.
153
00:09:31,195 --> 00:09:33,781
So we went back
to designing skin texture
154
00:09:33,864 --> 00:09:38,286
to actually bump maps and color maps,
where an artist would actually go in
155
00:09:38,411 --> 00:09:40,288
and paint those onto the creatures.
156
00:09:40,997 --> 00:09:43,332
This is the wire frame
on the T. Rex.
157
00:09:43,457 --> 00:09:47,878
This is how the model comes to us
before it's painted.
158
00:09:48,004 --> 00:09:51,882
Once this wire model is made, its skin...
159
00:09:53,259 --> 00:09:55,553
And then I put the color on the model.
160
00:09:55,761 --> 00:09:58,055
This is exactly
how I would go in and paint.
161
00:09:58,139 --> 00:10:03,227
I would choose my colors
and I painted him from toe to nose
162
00:10:03,477 --> 00:10:06,814
three times, and then went in
and did lot of touch-up work
163
00:10:06,897 --> 00:10:08,065
on top of that.
164
00:10:08,316 --> 00:10:11,277
When the thing could tell a story,
and it could,
165
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,364
the dinosaurs could have the scale,
pattern, and the color...
166
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:19,285
That was the tremendous leap
forward about Jurassic Park.
167
00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:25,666
So we got a sixth scale T. Rex model
that Stan Winston had built,
168
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:28,169
and then we cut it up very carefully
in our shop.
169
00:10:28,252 --> 00:10:31,255
We got these wizards that can do
anything like that, perfect.
170
00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:33,341
And it's in these sections small enough
171
00:10:33,424 --> 00:10:36,260
to put into the laser scanner
that existed down in Monterey.
172
00:10:36,344 --> 00:10:38,512
We went down to a company
called Cyberware.
173
00:10:38,596 --> 00:10:41,390
They had the only
three-dimensional scanner.
174
00:10:42,642 --> 00:10:45,645
And it would extract the data
into a polygonal data set.
175
00:10:45,728 --> 00:10:50,358
Now, polygonal data sets are 90 degree
crosshair section, like a ship, okay,
176
00:10:50,483 --> 00:10:54,028
but there's no contour to it,
so you can't have proper animation.
177
00:10:54,153 --> 00:10:58,115
So from that we had to rebuild
all the data to have the proper contour.
178
00:11:01,494 --> 00:11:05,081
Then we hooked on all the skin data
from the skin artists.
179
00:11:07,208 --> 00:11:09,210
Then did the first walking,
180
00:11:09,293 --> 00:11:14,507
fully rendered in daylight shot,
which took us about four months to do.
181
00:11:15,841 --> 00:11:20,137
And Dennis went and shot a plate, I think
might even been a still in the end.
182
00:11:20,221 --> 00:11:22,932
I picked the hardest design
I could come up with,
183
00:11:23,015 --> 00:11:24,642
which was just a static view
184
00:11:24,767 --> 00:11:28,479
of the T. Rex in broad daylight,
walking right toward you.
185
00:11:28,562 --> 00:11:32,525
Big, looming above you,
and Steve Williams animated it,
186
00:11:32,608 --> 00:11:34,860
Stefen Fangmeier did the lighting on it.
187
00:11:35,027 --> 00:11:38,989
Every opportunity to see anything wrong,
you were going to see in this test.
188
00:11:39,073 --> 00:11:40,825
We weren't trying to hide anything.
189
00:11:46,664 --> 00:11:50,584
Steve Williams invited me
for one of the very earliest screenings
190
00:11:50,668 --> 00:11:53,504
in the C building of the T. Rex test.
191
00:11:54,630 --> 00:11:57,550
And I was in this perceived
screening room... I think Dennis,
192
00:11:57,633 --> 00:12:01,512
and a handful of people,
and I knew that I was lucky to be there.
193
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,266
This was going to be a very
interesting moment, but I had no idea.
194
00:12:05,349 --> 00:12:07,101
It's one thing to see little tests,
195
00:12:07,184 --> 00:12:10,312
you know, it's another thing
to see it rendered on the screen.
196
00:12:17,403 --> 00:12:22,241
And the T. Rex comes thundering across
the screen and it's fully painted.
197
00:12:22,366 --> 00:12:25,745
I mean, it's still early days,
but there it was in the scene.
198
00:12:26,036 --> 00:12:28,956
And to watch that T. Rex
coming across the screen...
199
00:12:31,625 --> 00:12:36,547
I knew that at that moment,
I knew that visual effects
200
00:12:36,630 --> 00:12:38,632
would never be the same again.
201
00:12:39,258 --> 00:12:43,554
The thing worked, and just instantly,
it's like, everything worked.
202
00:12:43,637 --> 00:12:46,390
The animation worked,
the design, the lighting worked.
203
00:12:46,474 --> 00:12:50,686
The comp worked, the sense of it
being standing on the ground worked,
204
00:12:50,811 --> 00:12:55,191
the blurring on it worked. All this stuff,
because these guys are all terrific.
205
00:12:55,316 --> 00:13:00,154
Up until really that moment,
everything that we were doing
206
00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:04,241
in the model shop to create a dinosaur,
Phil's beautiful stop motion work
207
00:13:04,366 --> 00:13:06,952
and the stuff
that Stan Winston's company created
208
00:13:09,413 --> 00:13:10,915
they were all bound by gravity.
209
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,334
You had to have a way
to support that thing
210
00:13:13,417 --> 00:13:17,129
with your wires or a pole
or a hand puppet or something.
211
00:13:17,421 --> 00:13:19,673
And all of a sudden I realized
212
00:13:19,757 --> 00:13:22,927
that this could exist anywhere
and it could do anything.
213
00:13:23,177 --> 00:13:28,432
And I was witnessing it with a small group
of people in the C screening room,
214
00:13:28,516 --> 00:13:31,227
going almost weak, you know,
215
00:13:31,393 --> 00:13:37,149
with the amazement of it.
I'll never forget that.
216
00:13:41,403 --> 00:13:46,784
They did the stained glass man
for Young Sherlock and water snake thing
217
00:13:46,867 --> 00:13:51,872
in The Abyss and Terminator 2,
and I had always kind of thought
218
00:13:51,956 --> 00:13:55,209
well, yeah, the computer is great
for these hallucinogenic things
219
00:13:55,292 --> 00:13:57,711
but good luck doing a living,
breathing creature.
220
00:13:57,878 --> 00:14:02,049
Until he showed me the final shot
that they were going to show Spielberg,
221
00:14:02,132 --> 00:14:06,762
- and it was like...
- Whoops! Okay.
222
00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:14,019
My memory of Phil is he's kind of going,
"Okay, it looks pretty good."
223
00:14:14,103 --> 00:14:17,314
But, you know, that's just a dinosaur,
kind of taking a few steps,
224
00:14:17,398 --> 00:14:21,902
you know, so he was still kind of
like, okay, and but he's,
225
00:14:21,986 --> 00:14:23,863
you know, you can't say, it sucks.
226
00:14:23,946 --> 00:14:26,031
Everyone in the room's going holy ,
you can't.
227
00:14:26,115 --> 00:14:29,034
You've got to, like,
accept the truth of what it is.
228
00:14:30,494 --> 00:14:33,330
Then Dennis brought down
the film with Tippett
229
00:14:33,414 --> 00:14:37,418
to show Steven Spielberg,
and, boom, comes on Kathleen Kennedy.
230
00:14:37,585 --> 00:14:41,005
This isn't a very long piece of film
that we're putting up.
231
00:14:41,088 --> 00:14:42,548
It's pretty quick.
232
00:14:42,631 --> 00:14:47,386
It was a fully rendered walking T. Rex,
and they saw it and they flipped out.
233
00:14:47,595 --> 00:14:52,975
All of us leapt to our feet.
I mean, literally leapt to our feet.
234
00:14:53,183 --> 00:14:57,938
I had a kind of religious experience,
235
00:14:58,522 --> 00:15:00,941
and probably the greatest epiphany
236
00:15:01,025 --> 00:15:05,905
I've ever experienced
in my own world of making movies.
237
00:15:05,988 --> 00:15:10,409
That was the moment that I suddenly saw
238
00:15:10,492 --> 00:15:13,412
that everything was going to change.
239
00:15:13,913 --> 00:15:16,582
Not just my movie
was going to be a better movie,
240
00:15:16,957 --> 00:15:20,544
but the entire world was going
to follow in the footsteps
241
00:15:20,628 --> 00:15:25,633
of what Dennis Muren and Phil Tippett
and ILM were bringing to Jurassic Park.
242
00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:28,427
It was going to change
everything for all of us
243
00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:31,138
and for audiences everywhere.
244
00:15:31,472 --> 00:15:33,349
And we were never going to go back.
245
00:15:34,099 --> 00:15:36,977
Steven goes, "Well,
that's how we're gonna do the movie."
246
00:15:37,061 --> 00:15:40,481
And he was actually
a very compassionate guy.
247
00:15:40,564 --> 00:15:46,737
Yeah, I was putting on a brave face,
but he realized what the consequences
248
00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:51,575
that this were for me
and asked me how I felt,
249
00:15:51,659 --> 00:15:57,206
and I said, "I feel extinct,"
and he goes, "That's a great line.
250
00:15:57,289 --> 00:15:58,958
"I'm putting that in the movie."
251
00:16:03,128 --> 00:16:05,339
I think he was shell-shocked.
252
00:16:05,547 --> 00:16:07,633
My world had evaporated.
253
00:16:08,008 --> 00:16:12,179
I got pneumonia.
I had to stay in bed for two weeks.
254
00:16:12,304 --> 00:16:14,682
I just thought everything that I had
255
00:16:14,765 --> 00:16:21,355
ever worked for and built
was like... into the trash can.
256
00:16:23,273 --> 00:16:27,528
I can't think of many other
moments in effects
257
00:16:27,611 --> 00:16:30,572
where one way of doing something
258
00:16:30,656 --> 00:16:35,035
was so almost overnight, had changed.
259
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,329
So when the whole thing
came down with Phil,
260
00:16:37,413 --> 00:16:39,039
I don't think he was very happy.
261
00:16:39,123 --> 00:16:41,125
And I don't blame him
because it basically was
262
00:16:41,208 --> 00:16:43,210
supposed to be the ultimate stop motion.
263
00:16:43,293 --> 00:16:47,506
It was supposed to be his opus,
you know, pretty much.
264
00:16:47,589 --> 00:16:52,428
Yeah. I feel like . And I don't
remember, all that's kind of a blur to me.
265
00:16:53,762 --> 00:16:57,766
"But then I got a call from Steven and
he says, "Yeah, we want you on the show,
266
00:16:57,850 --> 00:16:59,935
"you know, you know too much."
267
00:17:00,102 --> 00:17:04,773
You know, so... "You never lost your job.
We'll just kick you upstairs."
268
00:17:04,857 --> 00:17:09,236
"You don't need to be an animator.
You just need to direct animators."
269
00:17:09,778 --> 00:17:16,160
He was going to go from somebody
whose hands in the craft
270
00:17:16,243 --> 00:17:22,207
of changing armatures, to the greatest
dinosaur whisperer in the world.
271
00:17:23,667 --> 00:17:25,878
Phil knew how animals
moved and loved,
272
00:17:25,961 --> 00:17:29,381
and his guys that he was working with
were the same way, the animators.
273
00:17:29,465 --> 00:17:32,551
We needed them moving the dinosaurs.
274
00:17:32,634 --> 00:17:35,888
But with a tool that could
feed it into the computer,
275
00:17:35,971 --> 00:17:37,931
then we could fix things
up in the computer.
276
00:17:38,015 --> 00:17:40,309
So we had to build this thing
that's called the D.I.D.
277
00:17:40,392 --> 00:17:43,187
They called the Dinosaur Input Device,
and that was basically
278
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:46,857
an armature, stop-motion armature,
in the shape or the skeleton of a T. Rex.
279
00:17:53,906 --> 00:17:57,451
It was hooked up to encoders
that would plug into the computer,
280
00:17:57,534 --> 00:17:59,870
and when you move the head
of the Tyrannosaurus here,
281
00:17:59,953 --> 00:18:02,539
the image on the computer
screen would move.
282
00:18:05,375 --> 00:18:09,505
The idea to build this device,
it just seemed like a no-brainer.
283
00:18:09,588 --> 00:18:12,299
And I guess I had such experience at ILM,
284
00:18:12,382 --> 00:18:15,135
you know, starting with what John Dykstra
had done on Star Wars.
285
00:18:15,219 --> 00:18:18,347
Just starting from scratch and doing it
that I had no problem
286
00:18:18,430 --> 00:18:19,890
saying, "Let's do this."
287
00:18:19,973 --> 00:18:23,018
There were people at ILM
that wanted to exclude Phil,
288
00:18:23,102 --> 00:18:26,688
but it was not going to happen
because the value he had needed
289
00:18:26,855 --> 00:18:30,776
to stay within the show,
and I had my personal relationship.
290
00:18:30,859 --> 00:18:34,488
It was much, much better for the movie
to have Phil working it.
291
00:18:34,655 --> 00:18:35,781
He roars right there.
292
00:18:35,864 --> 00:18:38,158
This is where he hurls it
into the skeleton.
293
00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:39,511
This direction so you could
294
00:18:39,535 --> 00:18:43,455
get the raptors on this side of his head,
get him around this...
295
00:18:43,539 --> 00:18:46,166
Through Phil Tippett's
stop motion miniatures
296
00:18:46,250 --> 00:18:49,920
and his on-the-set monitoring of behavior,
297
00:18:50,003 --> 00:18:54,174
he was going to bring life
to those animals in a different way.
298
00:18:54,383 --> 00:18:55,759
- He'd be wiping like...
- Yeah.
299
00:18:55,843 --> 00:18:57,136
Right at the camera.
300
00:18:57,219 --> 00:19:00,222
What I insisted
that the animators do
301
00:19:00,347 --> 00:19:05,185
was imagine themselves as the dinosaur
302
00:19:05,686 --> 00:19:11,984
to kind of, like, self-hypnotize yourself
into this imaginary mindset.
303
00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:13,986
So here's how far we went...
movement classes.
304
00:19:14,069 --> 00:19:17,030
Okay. Ready? Focus. Get down here.
305
00:19:17,906 --> 00:19:19,158
Go.
306
00:19:27,958 --> 00:19:30,085
A lot of that's Phil.
You get your guys,
307
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:31,920
if you're gonna do movement of animals,
308
00:19:32,004 --> 00:19:33,839
you've got to be able
to move like animals.
309
00:19:33,922 --> 00:19:36,508
When I think about it,
it's exactly the right way to do it.
310
00:19:36,592 --> 00:19:39,928
You just go all out.
Everyone is totally immersed in dinosaurs.
311
00:19:40,012 --> 00:19:41,680
We learned all about this stuff.
312
00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:48,270
And we got so freaked out.
313
00:19:48,353 --> 00:19:51,023
I remember one day we're sitting there
going, "How do we know"
314
00:19:51,148 --> 00:19:53,901
"the way we're doing dinosaurs
will look good on film?"
315
00:19:54,193 --> 00:19:57,863
Well, let's take 35mm film
of us being dinosaurs,
316
00:19:59,239 --> 00:20:00,490
and project it,
317
00:20:00,574 --> 00:20:04,286
and look at it and see what we think
of ourselves being dinosaurs,
318
00:20:04,369 --> 00:20:07,456
because that might be what it looks like
when we animate them.
319
00:20:07,581 --> 00:20:09,291
Okay? Yeah. Why not? Why not?
320
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:11,376
So we go out there, we build a set,
321
00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:14,254
it's the scene where the Gallimimus
are running from the T. Rex.
322
00:20:14,338 --> 00:20:17,049
They jump over the log and everyone's
supposed to be in character.
323
00:20:17,132 --> 00:20:19,843
And so Ty Ellingson, one of
the lead art directors on the show,
324
00:20:19,927 --> 00:20:21,595
he's going to be the scared Gallimimus,
325
00:20:21,678 --> 00:20:24,431
where he stops on the log and looks back,
and then jumps off.
326
00:20:24,514 --> 00:20:26,934
Everyone's running like...
a Gallimimus.
327
00:20:27,017 --> 00:20:31,605
Ty jumps the log, he slips
and lands and breaks his drawing arm.
328
00:20:32,022 --> 00:20:37,527
So after that, the rule at ILM
was no more pretending you're dinosaurs.
329
00:20:37,986 --> 00:20:40,948
But it's all worth it
if you get the right end result.
330
00:20:45,327 --> 00:20:48,830
- Timmy, what is it?
- It's a Velociraptor.
331
00:20:50,791 --> 00:20:52,542
It's inside.
332
00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:57,256
The kitchen sequence in Jurassic Park,
if you look at the original animatic
333
00:20:57,339 --> 00:21:01,009
done with little rubber puppets like this,
you know, it's been worked out.
334
00:21:08,141 --> 00:21:10,394
I mean, there's some attitudes
of the dinosaurs,
335
00:21:10,477 --> 00:21:11,853
there's their performances.
336
00:21:16,942 --> 00:21:19,069
You know, so much of it
was worked out already,
337
00:21:19,152 --> 00:21:22,990
and he had the same guys
that did those animatics
338
00:21:23,073 --> 00:21:25,659
also did the actual performances
for the film
339
00:21:25,826 --> 00:21:28,662
by moving the D.I.D. creature.
340
00:21:37,754 --> 00:21:42,759
So their essence and soul
was in it, and Phil was directing it.
341
00:21:42,843 --> 00:21:45,887
He directed the original animatics
and the other stuff, too.
342
00:21:50,726 --> 00:21:53,937
You know, the main road sequence
when you first see the T. Rex,
343
00:21:54,187 --> 00:21:56,023
that's his guys doing that stuff.
344
00:21:56,398 --> 00:22:00,360
That stuff has got a lot
of powerful performance animation.
345
00:22:02,779 --> 00:22:04,823
Boy, do I hate being right all the time.
346
00:22:05,907 --> 00:22:09,286
Early in the process, Steven said to me,
347
00:22:09,703 --> 00:22:15,125
um, "I need it to run."
Like that was going to be something easy.
348
00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:17,252
It was obviously not easy.
349
00:22:17,419 --> 00:22:20,213
That took me four months
to figure out that animation.
350
00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:29,306
I had to figure out how to make
nine tons run 35-40 miles an hour,
351
00:22:29,389 --> 00:22:31,058
which your eye does the math.
352
00:22:31,141 --> 00:22:33,310
It goes, this does not look right,
you know.
353
00:22:33,518 --> 00:22:36,897
Fundamentally,
it is not natural to have
354
00:22:36,980 --> 00:22:40,484
an animal that large that
only has two legs,
355
00:22:40,567 --> 00:22:42,903
whose head weighs a ton
to do all these things.
356
00:22:42,986 --> 00:22:45,072
So it's strange.
357
00:22:45,155 --> 00:22:48,241
Of course, everybody's reading,
"The T. Rex never ran." Great.
358
00:22:48,367 --> 00:22:52,079
Well, Spielberg wants it to run.
I have to make it run.
359
00:22:52,204 --> 00:22:54,289
I have to make it chase a Jeep, you know?
360
00:23:03,423 --> 00:23:06,301
So we do this animation
and we work on it, like, crazy,
361
00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:07,719
and Phil isn't liking it.
362
00:23:07,803 --> 00:23:09,554
And Spielberg's kind of agreeing,
363
00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:12,682
and we've been beating
on this thing for weeks,
364
00:23:12,766 --> 00:23:14,351
and Spaz is getting depressed.
365
00:23:16,478 --> 00:23:18,146
Every day. It wasn't looking right.
366
00:23:18,271 --> 00:23:20,107
Wasn't looking right.
Wasn't looking right.
367
00:23:20,190 --> 00:23:23,360
Phil is basically saying Spaz can't do it.
What are we going to do?
368
00:23:23,443 --> 00:23:26,738
But I'm saying Spaz can do it.
You guys can do it. We can do it.
369
00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:28,448
It's really getting like that.
370
00:23:28,532 --> 00:23:29,866
There's this one last meeting,
371
00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:34,121
Phil can point at a million things that
are wrong, and Steven's on the fence.
372
00:23:34,204 --> 00:23:37,749
I can hear it. "It's pretty good. I think
you're right, but it's pretty good."
373
00:23:37,833 --> 00:23:40,836
So Mark and I are looking at it
and it had 150 curves,
374
00:23:41,044 --> 00:23:44,548
so I took all the curves
and I scaled them by 20%.
375
00:23:44,631 --> 00:23:48,009
So I wrote a little algorithm
that scaled all the curves.
376
00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:51,221
It just slowed the creature
down that much more.
377
00:23:51,304 --> 00:23:53,098
And bingo, it worked.
378
00:24:02,023 --> 00:24:05,318
The last shot I animated was the Rex
chasing Jeff Goldblum.
379
00:24:07,195 --> 00:24:08,655
You know, by that time I just,
380
00:24:08,738 --> 00:24:11,575
you know, it took me five, six days
to animate that shot.
381
00:24:15,537 --> 00:24:18,373
And the guy who gets it
off the toilet seat, right?
382
00:24:18,457 --> 00:24:21,460
That's a T-1000 with shorts on,
and that's the actual data.
383
00:24:22,752 --> 00:24:24,588
I just repurposed the data.
384
00:24:28,425 --> 00:24:34,014
When we saw the dinosaurs
that were created by the computers,
385
00:24:34,097 --> 00:24:39,102
I mean, I cried because I knew
the writing was on the wall.
386
00:24:39,186 --> 00:24:43,398
The creature shop was no more
and that digital would take over,
387
00:24:43,482 --> 00:24:45,650
which was George's vision all along.
388
00:24:45,817 --> 00:24:49,029
When we went digital,
most of the model shop
389
00:24:49,112 --> 00:24:50,489
just packed up and left.
390
00:24:50,572 --> 00:24:52,574
When that transition happened,
391
00:24:52,657 --> 00:24:54,534
you know, to CG, from practical,
392
00:24:54,618 --> 00:24:56,703
we thought it would take
a little bit longer.
393
00:24:56,786 --> 00:25:00,999
You know, Jim Morris one time came to us
and talk to, before the whole group.
394
00:25:01,082 --> 00:25:02,542
You know that the world is changing
395
00:25:02,626 --> 00:25:05,128
and this is going to happen,
and this is going to happen.
396
00:25:05,212 --> 00:25:08,632
And he called a meeting,
like, four months later, he said,
397
00:25:08,715 --> 00:25:13,094
"It's happening a thousand times
faster than I ever anticipated."
398
00:25:13,178 --> 00:25:16,223
It was a hard time because,
you know, I'd been in the trenches
399
00:25:16,306 --> 00:25:19,059
with all the guys,
whether it was the camera folks,
400
00:25:19,142 --> 00:25:21,811
the model makers, the gaffers, grips,
401
00:25:21,978 --> 00:25:25,982
the practical effects people.
And I loved all that stuff.
402
00:25:26,775 --> 00:25:30,445
So it was a wistful time at best,
and a sad time at others
403
00:25:30,529 --> 00:25:32,239
as that started to go away.
404
00:25:35,408 --> 00:25:37,720
There was less and less work
for the Model Shop,
405
00:25:37,744 --> 00:25:39,829
so if you weren't going
to do the digital thing,
406
00:25:39,913 --> 00:25:42,082
you weren't going
to be working full-time anymore.
407
00:25:42,165 --> 00:25:45,544
Some people actually made
the transition, didn't like it,
408
00:25:45,627 --> 00:25:47,254
and came back again.
409
00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:49,464
Some people just didn't want to do it.
410
00:25:52,342 --> 00:25:55,679
You know, I had absolutely
no inclination to switch to CG.
411
00:25:55,845 --> 00:25:58,473
It's not a love of mine and never was.
412
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,726
Sitting in a chair... I couldn't do it.
413
00:26:02,018 --> 00:26:05,480
They said, "You know,
they're looking for another CG person"
414
00:26:05,605 --> 00:26:08,400
"to do hard surface stuff,
are you interested?"
415
00:26:08,483 --> 00:26:10,485
And I said, "Yeah."
416
00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:12,696
Kim transitioned
a month ahead of me
417
00:26:12,779 --> 00:26:16,199
and when she went, I was like,
"Okay, that's what I'm gonna do, too."
418
00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:20,662
It was grueling. I was exhausted.
419
00:26:20,745 --> 00:26:23,582
For about six months,
I dreamt in pull down menus.
420
00:26:23,665 --> 00:26:25,375
People from the model shop would say,
421
00:26:25,458 --> 00:26:27,419
"What's it like working
in computer graphics?"
422
00:26:27,502 --> 00:26:29,671
I said, "Well, imagine
you go into the wood shop"
423
00:26:29,754 --> 00:26:32,215
"and you're going to cut wood.
You turn on the saw."
424
00:26:32,299 --> 00:26:34,509
"You put the wood down,
you start to cut it,"
425
00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:38,305
"and the shop disappears,
and you don't know where it went."
426
00:26:38,388 --> 00:26:40,682
"You bang around for a few minutes
and it comes back"
427
00:26:40,765 --> 00:26:43,018
"and the wood's cut,
and you don't know how."
428
00:26:43,101 --> 00:26:45,186
I said, "That's what
computer graphics is like."
429
00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:47,897
You can't expect everything
to stay the same.
430
00:26:47,981 --> 00:26:51,610
You can't expect things to be
exactly the way they were.
431
00:26:51,693 --> 00:26:55,697
The world changes
and the company changes and so be it.
432
00:26:55,780 --> 00:26:57,032
But it's still ILM.
433
00:27:03,913 --> 00:27:08,668
All those years
of building up the technology,
434
00:27:09,294 --> 00:27:14,716
finally came to this sort of a cliff thing
around this period of, like, '93
435
00:27:15,008 --> 00:27:18,762
when Jurassic Park came out,
and it's like a lot of changes
436
00:27:18,887 --> 00:27:20,889
in the world that
you're building up for it
437
00:27:20,972 --> 00:27:23,058
and you're under the radar
and supporting it,
438
00:27:23,141 --> 00:27:24,559
you're trying to make things work.
439
00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:26,519
And then all of a sudden, bam!
440
00:27:27,062 --> 00:27:29,481
Everything changes
in a short period of time.
441
00:27:32,859 --> 00:27:36,154
When I first arrived at ILM,
I worked on Casper.
442
00:27:38,031 --> 00:27:39,532
I moved to America
443
00:27:39,616 --> 00:27:44,245
to pursue the film business
and really to pursue that dream of ILM.
444
00:27:44,329 --> 00:27:47,791
I mean, it just seemed so exotic
to me and so fantastic.
445
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,463
And that was during that big bump,
all this explosion in the digital world.
446
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,841
- Hey, guys.
- Look, it's Casper.
447
00:27:57,092 --> 00:27:58,510
- Yeah, Casper.
- Casper.
448
00:27:58,593 --> 00:28:02,180
Casper had 45 minutes
of CG characters in it.
449
00:28:03,056 --> 00:28:06,101
It was 600 shots or 500 shots,
450
00:28:06,184 --> 00:28:08,687
which was an enormous number of shots
in those days
451
00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:12,399
'cause you think of Jurassic Park,
whatever it is, 80 shots or something.
452
00:28:12,482 --> 00:28:16,361
We had to do a huge ramp up
and grow the computer graphics department.
453
00:28:16,444 --> 00:28:20,031
In fact, we got up to 105 people
at that point in time,
454
00:28:20,115 --> 00:28:24,327
which is only noteworthy because
we weren't sure there were 105 people
455
00:28:24,411 --> 00:28:27,706
that could do computer graphics
at that point in time.
456
00:28:27,789 --> 00:28:30,458
ILM had really been
a relatively small company
457
00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:32,794
for so many years, so they were
458
00:28:32,877 --> 00:28:38,133
really hiring on a grand scale, and it
turned it into a sort of a bigger machine.
459
00:28:38,383 --> 00:28:41,970
And then it sort of crept up
to 1,200 or 1,500 people.
460
00:28:44,431 --> 00:28:47,851
We spent many years
to develop digital technology.
461
00:28:48,309 --> 00:28:51,938
I was designing the place
for a different kind of production.
462
00:28:52,063 --> 00:28:54,733
Nobody had ever harnessed it
to put in the movies,
463
00:28:55,024 --> 00:28:59,487
and most people didn't think it was
possible, that you just couldn't do that.
464
00:29:00,822 --> 00:29:03,825
So we were learning
to use a different form
465
00:29:04,701 --> 00:29:07,787
of visual effects
and ways of making movies.
466
00:29:07,912 --> 00:29:09,831
Congratulations. How do you feel?
467
00:29:10,123 --> 00:29:11,666
I got to pee.
468
00:29:11,791 --> 00:29:17,380
Now suddenly, in the short period of time,
these projects that George has initiated,
469
00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:18,798
the video editing...
470
00:29:19,007 --> 00:29:23,303
In this non-linear editor,
you can splice in, just like in film.
471
00:29:23,678 --> 00:29:25,263
In the digital audio...
472
00:29:28,516 --> 00:29:30,185
In computer graphics...
473
00:29:33,354 --> 00:29:35,190
All of them come together,
474
00:29:35,273 --> 00:29:38,318
and the industry changes
in about a three, four year time span.
475
00:29:38,485 --> 00:29:41,404
And that's when I decided
I could do the next three movies.
476
00:29:46,034 --> 00:29:48,745
I was excited to go back and go to work
477
00:29:49,078 --> 00:29:52,665
because a lot of frustration
I had with analogs cinema is gone.
478
00:29:52,832 --> 00:29:55,168
How can we manage to change
the operating procedures
479
00:29:55,251 --> 00:29:57,378
in a way that we can
completely revolutionize
480
00:29:57,462 --> 00:30:00,507
the way we make movies
so that this is all doable?
481
00:30:00,673 --> 00:30:04,093
I got pitched as one
of the sups on Episode I
482
00:30:04,177 --> 00:30:07,222
and that was an opportunity
you do not turn down.
483
00:30:07,472 --> 00:30:08,598
I was terrified.
484
00:30:08,723 --> 00:30:13,561
But I comforted myself with the thought
that that must have been the same reaction
485
00:30:13,645 --> 00:30:17,524
that John Dykstra had
when he was first exposed to Star Wars.
486
00:30:18,983 --> 00:30:21,861
When I first arrived at ILM,
you know, my whole goal,
487
00:30:21,945 --> 00:30:24,572
like everybody else,
was that I want to work on Star Wars,
488
00:30:24,656 --> 00:30:26,658
and I felt like my art skills
were so lacking.
489
00:30:26,908 --> 00:30:29,619
So I gave myself assignments
every day for a full week
490
00:30:29,702 --> 00:30:33,540
with the idea that the end of the week
I would produce a production painting.
491
00:30:33,706 --> 00:30:36,292
And so I literally did that
for a full year.
492
00:30:36,501 --> 00:30:41,005
And the terrific thing about that was that
everything that I was doing unconsciously,
493
00:30:41,089 --> 00:30:44,551
mirrored what George was doing in terms
of how he was designing for Star Wars.
494
00:30:44,634 --> 00:30:45,718
He was merging things.
495
00:30:45,844 --> 00:30:49,389
He was combining things, he was mixing
and matching, and that's when he saw
496
00:30:49,472 --> 00:30:52,058
my portfolio, and that's why he hired me
497
00:30:52,141 --> 00:30:54,686
to head up the art department
for the new prequels.
498
00:31:01,943 --> 00:31:06,364
I was asked to go up to the ranch
to see the artwork that Doug Chiang had,
499
00:31:06,447 --> 00:31:08,658
and there were these boards
500
00:31:08,825 --> 00:31:12,287
that were covered in the most
beautiful Doug Chiang illustrations,
501
00:31:12,370 --> 00:31:16,040
you know, the concept art,
one after the other, after the other.
502
00:31:16,124 --> 00:31:17,166
He had storyboards
503
00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:19,878
that were pasted up
on 4x8 sheets of Foamcore.
504
00:31:20,003 --> 00:31:24,674
Ten to a column, ten columns across.
And I think there were 36 boards.
505
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:31,139
So 3,600 storyboards,
and almost every board
506
00:31:31,222 --> 00:31:33,683
there was something
that we had never done before.
507
00:31:33,766 --> 00:31:39,397
So I was keeping notes of,
"Yeah, okay, we're going to need"
508
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,026
"to be able to do crowd scenes
with dozens or hundreds of characters."
509
00:31:43,276 --> 00:31:45,194
You know, we hadn't
really done that before.
510
00:31:45,278 --> 00:31:47,405
These are CG characters
that have clothing.
511
00:31:47,488 --> 00:31:50,074
We're going to have to do
the cloth simulation on them.
512
00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:52,201
These Jedi are slicing through droids,
513
00:31:52,285 --> 00:31:54,787
and the pieces are landing
on the ground, we'll need
514
00:31:54,871 --> 00:31:56,331
a rigid body dynamic system.
515
00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:58,791
You know, we're pushing
the envelope in a few places,
516
00:31:58,875 --> 00:32:00,376
but I know this is going to work.
517
00:32:00,543 --> 00:32:03,338
The big grass planet battle there,
518
00:32:03,421 --> 00:32:05,340
- zillions of creatures.
- Yeah.
519
00:32:05,673 --> 00:32:08,718
And we don't have a real
good way of doing that right now.
520
00:32:08,885 --> 00:32:11,638
And it got to be a little overwhelming
'cause just as you're
521
00:32:11,721 --> 00:32:13,848
writing down this thing,
we're on to something else
522
00:32:13,973 --> 00:32:15,516
that had never been done before.
523
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,143
And they were not just that
524
00:32:17,226 --> 00:32:21,230
we were doing a lot of effects,
we were creating entire worlds,
525
00:32:21,564 --> 00:32:23,650
and many of them.
526
00:32:23,816 --> 00:32:27,445
I had the sensation that I just wanted
to go and lie down,
527
00:32:27,612 --> 00:32:31,866
because it was hard to take it in
in one go like that.
528
00:32:32,742 --> 00:32:36,537
I remember during the production
of Episode I,
529
00:32:36,621 --> 00:32:38,790
George was often encouraging me
530
00:32:38,873 --> 00:32:44,420
to do things that I thought
were marginal or ill-advised.
531
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:49,133
There's not enough power
to get us to Coruscant.
532
00:32:49,217 --> 00:32:51,719
The hyperdrive is leaking.
We'll have to land somewhere
533
00:32:51,844 --> 00:32:53,304
and refuel and repair the ship.
534
00:32:53,429 --> 00:32:57,392
A result of the digital technology
was that what happened in editorial
535
00:32:57,475 --> 00:33:00,436
was much more of a manufacturing process.
536
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,814
You did what I called "film recomposing."
537
00:33:03,022 --> 00:33:04,732
So what I want to do is
538
00:33:04,816 --> 00:33:07,902
we'll leave this for the time being
and we'll create this other shot
539
00:33:07,986 --> 00:33:10,655
and if this other shot works,
we'll come back to the shot,
540
00:33:10,738 --> 00:33:13,783
take Panaka, slip him out of sync
so he doesn't start to move.
541
00:33:13,908 --> 00:33:16,536
- So he's just standing there. Okay?
- Okay.
542
00:33:16,786 --> 00:33:21,249
You know, you've got character A
talking to character B over the shoulder,
543
00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:25,753
and you could cut out between them and use
different takes that were not the takes
544
00:33:25,837 --> 00:33:29,507
that they actually talk to each other
because you might prefer a response
545
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:33,553
from somebody or a hand gesture
or something, or a blink differently.
546
00:33:33,636 --> 00:33:36,097
He started doing a lot of editorial comps
547
00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:41,060
where he would take this actor from
this plate and put him in that plate,
548
00:33:41,144 --> 00:33:43,604
and I'm going to drop out
this line of dialogue,
549
00:33:43,688 --> 00:33:45,732
so just morph it together and...
550
00:33:45,857 --> 00:33:50,319
John Knoll great. He was
the visual effects person on my left,
551
00:33:50,611 --> 00:33:54,449
and he would sit there and do,
you know, shots and things.
552
00:33:54,532 --> 00:33:57,869
He would just do them on his
little laptop, and all it did in the end
553
00:33:57,952 --> 00:34:00,788
was gain him
a whole lot of heartache.
554
00:34:00,872 --> 00:34:02,832
Because then I relied on him
for everything.
555
00:34:02,915 --> 00:34:07,503
He was doing all these things that,
boy, I wouldn't have chosen to do that.
556
00:34:07,587 --> 00:34:12,341
I said, "Let's do this. Let's do that."
And he would always be going, "Oh, God."
557
00:34:12,425 --> 00:34:14,469
I said, "Just try it, see what happens."
558
00:34:14,552 --> 00:34:16,721
I said, "Yeah,
but the lighting doesn't match."
559
00:34:16,804 --> 00:34:19,182
"And the perspective,
it's the wrong focal length and..."
560
00:34:19,265 --> 00:34:20,475
Just try it.
561
00:34:20,767 --> 00:34:24,312
I know you're in pain,
I recognize you're in pain.
562
00:34:24,854 --> 00:34:27,690
And I appreciate your pain,
but let's do it.
563
00:34:27,774 --> 00:34:29,484
All right. Let me see what I can do.
564
00:34:29,567 --> 00:34:32,445
And you'd go in and you do
the best job of it you can.
565
00:34:32,695 --> 00:34:36,949
The main things here,
we have the walking hologram generator,
566
00:34:37,033 --> 00:34:38,743
which will be added in computer graphic.
567
00:34:38,826 --> 00:34:43,414
We have a matte painting of Theed City
to put back there, and the light fixtures
568
00:34:43,539 --> 00:34:47,043
on the hall in the hallway
are not what George wants.
569
00:34:47,126 --> 00:34:49,378
So we're going to replace them
with something else.
570
00:34:49,462 --> 00:34:52,256
So it's a relatively straightforward shot.
571
00:34:52,465 --> 00:34:54,884
And it actually turned out
better than I thought.
572
00:34:55,176 --> 00:34:56,844
But now when I'm on a...
573
00:34:56,928 --> 00:35:00,056
I would think of as a more
normal production, and you'd say,
574
00:35:00,223 --> 00:35:03,935
"If we just take that guy from that plate,
we can split that in there,
575
00:35:04,102 --> 00:35:07,188
"and that'll be fine."
And the director will go, "Really?
576
00:35:07,271 --> 00:35:09,899
"You can do that?"
I said, "Yeah, we did stuff
577
00:35:09,982 --> 00:35:11,901
"way dumber than that on Star Wars."
578
00:35:13,986 --> 00:35:18,616
George, especially the time that I joined,
when it was his film that we were making,
579
00:35:18,783 --> 00:35:21,327
he was really pushing us
to do something different.
580
00:35:21,452 --> 00:35:25,414
I knew I could use those films to make
people believe that digital cinema works.
581
00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:28,793
George has always had a intense curiosity
582
00:35:28,876 --> 00:35:33,673
for innovating film making technique
and production methodologies.
583
00:35:33,756 --> 00:35:35,466
The film industry was so calcified
584
00:35:35,550 --> 00:35:37,677
that that was,
they were going to stay that way.
585
00:35:37,802 --> 00:35:39,846
And it took a lot to get them to change.
586
00:35:42,849 --> 00:35:48,229
We went to Sony, who was building
a high-def television camera,
587
00:35:48,437 --> 00:35:51,065
and we said, "It has to go
24 frames a second."
588
00:35:51,274 --> 00:35:53,067
"It can't go 30 frames a second."
589
00:35:53,609 --> 00:35:55,528
They said, "That's really hard."
590
00:35:55,820 --> 00:35:59,073
So after a lot of talking,
we convinced them to do it.
591
00:36:02,952 --> 00:36:05,997
I was a persona non grata
in the film industry.
592
00:36:06,164 --> 00:36:09,125
The Camera Guild was out to get me.
593
00:36:09,458 --> 00:36:12,545
They wrote terrible editorials about me.
594
00:36:12,670 --> 00:36:15,506
There were some
that were probably worried or defensive
595
00:36:15,590 --> 00:36:18,176
that this was gonna put them out of work.
596
00:36:18,342 --> 00:36:21,512
We got the cameras finished,
but we couldn't find
597
00:36:21,596 --> 00:36:24,682
a lens that would go on it
because it was a very
598
00:36:24,849 --> 00:36:27,018
different area that had to be covered.
599
00:36:27,476 --> 00:36:31,272
And so I went to Panavision
and they said, "We'll do it."
600
00:36:31,898 --> 00:36:34,108
So when we got to Attack of the Clones,
601
00:36:34,233 --> 00:36:36,235
we were able to shoot
the whole thing digitally.
602
00:36:36,319 --> 00:36:40,114
- Okay, cut. Okay. That was good.
- Cut that!
603
00:36:40,573 --> 00:36:41,574
That was beautiful.
604
00:36:42,867 --> 00:36:45,411
Then we had to go to Texas Instruments,
605
00:36:45,661 --> 00:36:48,164
who was starting to build
digital projectors.
606
00:36:48,289 --> 00:36:51,042
The projector
stores images electronically,
607
00:36:51,125 --> 00:36:52,710
they're shot through
a special chip
608
00:36:52,793 --> 00:36:55,129
that packs over a million tiny mirrors.
609
00:36:55,379 --> 00:36:58,799
They reflect colors in different ways
to make pictures on a screen.
610
00:36:58,883 --> 00:37:01,385
But in order to get the theaters
to get the projector,
611
00:37:01,469 --> 00:37:02,845
we had to give them projectors.
612
00:37:02,929 --> 00:37:05,223
And they cost around $100,000 apiece.
613
00:37:05,306 --> 00:37:09,060
So we just gave 'em to them for a while
until they got used to them.
614
00:37:09,227 --> 00:37:12,480
It all may cost more,
so the industry may need convincing.
615
00:37:12,563 --> 00:37:14,357
I remember, early days,
616
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,068
he had so much resistance,
like, "No, no way."
617
00:37:17,151 --> 00:37:18,486
"Digital projectors? No way."
618
00:37:18,569 --> 00:37:21,364
Even though we saw the results,
there were no scratches
619
00:37:21,447 --> 00:37:23,491
and the clarity was so much better.
620
00:37:24,617 --> 00:37:28,329
The Theater Owners Association
was saying that we were like drug dealers.
621
00:37:28,412 --> 00:37:31,582
Once they get you hooked on this,
you'll never get off and all that.
622
00:37:31,666 --> 00:37:32,917
It was really a bad time.
623
00:37:35,836 --> 00:37:37,255
But when we did the first one,
624
00:37:37,338 --> 00:37:40,424
Phantom Menace went out
in four digital theaters.
625
00:37:40,675 --> 00:37:44,136
The next film went out in 200 theaters.
626
00:37:45,513 --> 00:37:48,391
Eventually, we got
to the point where, you know,
627
00:37:48,516 --> 00:37:52,270
almost half of the theaters
in America were digital.
628
00:37:54,647 --> 00:38:00,820
I was working at an AMC movie theater
when the original prequel films came out.
629
00:38:05,074 --> 00:38:09,495
This is right before I realize
I want to become a filmmaker.
630
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,879
And every time I was
working in an auditorium
631
00:38:18,963 --> 00:38:21,549
and that came on, I would just
stop what I was doing
632
00:38:21,632 --> 00:38:23,259
and I would just get lost in it.
633
00:38:23,342 --> 00:38:26,345
And at that point in time,
the fight scenes were magnificent.
634
00:38:26,429 --> 00:38:27,471
And I must admit
635
00:38:31,726 --> 00:38:35,646
seeing Yoda wield the light saber
and fight was magnificent.
636
00:38:36,397 --> 00:38:40,359
And so I think at that point
it was just about scale and spectacle.
637
00:38:45,948 --> 00:38:48,659
It was just epic,
you know, it was just epic.
638
00:38:49,869 --> 00:38:52,163
I couldn't make one,
two and three without digital.
639
00:38:52,246 --> 00:38:55,416
I couldn't do any of that stuff.
I mean, those are giant movies.
640
00:38:55,499 --> 00:38:58,294
A lot of things changed at ILM
as a result of all of that.
641
00:38:58,377 --> 00:39:02,757
In fact, I think that the changes
were way beyond the company.
642
00:39:02,882 --> 00:39:06,135
They changed film making more generally.
643
00:39:06,302 --> 00:39:09,889
Ladies and gentlemen,
the President of the United States.
644
00:39:11,474 --> 00:39:14,310
You start drawing dotted lines
back to innovations
645
00:39:14,393 --> 00:39:17,938
that George and his team
of geniuses at ILM made.
646
00:39:18,022 --> 00:39:22,985
You know, it was like EditDroid
and CGI characters and CGI at all.
647
00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:25,821
Like digital cameras, digital compositing.
648
00:39:25,905 --> 00:39:28,616
There's so many things.
It's like Menlo Park.
649
00:39:28,699 --> 00:39:31,327
It's like Thomas Edison, like...
650
00:39:31,702 --> 00:39:33,913
Thanks and welcome to the White House.
651
00:39:34,705 --> 00:39:37,124
It is an honor to be in the company
652
00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:40,419
of so many bright
and distinguished Americans.
653
00:39:40,503 --> 00:39:43,923
He totally changed
the entertainment industry.
654
00:39:44,131 --> 00:39:46,967
The 2004
National Medal of Technology
655
00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:50,096
is awarded to Industrial Light & Magic,
656
00:39:50,262 --> 00:39:55,643
Chrissie England and George Lucas
for 30 years of innovation
657
00:39:55,726 --> 00:39:59,397
in visual effects technology
for the motion picture industry.
658
00:39:59,772 --> 00:40:03,567
The National Medal of Technology
was really a recognition
659
00:40:03,651 --> 00:40:06,779
at a higher level,
and George was super proud of it.
660
00:40:06,904 --> 00:40:09,949
You know, his company
receiving something like that.
661
00:40:10,574 --> 00:40:15,704
It gave people a sense of accomplishment
that was super valuable.
662
00:40:18,416 --> 00:40:20,376
George has innovated so much.
663
00:40:21,377 --> 00:40:24,338
I grew up in Queens in the '70s and '80s,
664
00:40:24,422 --> 00:40:28,342
and as I watched films, I was right
in the sweet spot of practical effects
665
00:40:28,551 --> 00:40:31,887
in the films of Spielberg
and Lucas and ILM, all of it.
666
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,395
So I'm kind of patient zero
667
00:40:39,603 --> 00:40:44,400
for what impression that world
made upon a generation.
668
00:40:44,733 --> 00:40:47,361
And because of that,
I didn't really like CGI.
669
00:40:50,281 --> 00:40:53,033
And it was on Iron Man working with ILM,
670
00:40:53,117 --> 00:40:56,912
I really began to trust that
CGI could live up
671
00:40:56,996 --> 00:41:00,958
to the promise of what was presented
back in Jurassic Park.
672
00:41:02,585 --> 00:41:07,465
Jon came in as someone who was
pretty openly skeptical of CG effects,
673
00:41:07,548 --> 00:41:09,550
and that was fine, you know.
674
00:41:09,633 --> 00:41:11,927
I think that served us well, actually.
675
00:41:12,303 --> 00:41:15,014
I was shooting a real suit
that Stan Winston built,
676
00:41:15,097 --> 00:41:16,682
and then we would also have a CG suit
677
00:41:16,765 --> 00:41:19,268
because there were certain things
a suit couldn't do.
678
00:41:19,351 --> 00:41:21,395
Starting into it,
everyone was very keen,
679
00:41:21,479 --> 00:41:24,648
including Robert to have him
in the real suit whenever possible.
680
00:41:24,732 --> 00:41:26,901
You know, obviously,
because you built this thing.
681
00:41:27,026 --> 00:41:28,694
It's beautiful. You should use it.
682
00:41:28,777 --> 00:41:32,615
But it was so limiting in its movements
that Robert, I think,
683
00:41:32,698 --> 00:41:37,369
very quickly embraced the pajamas
with markers that we gave him for
684
00:41:37,495 --> 00:41:39,622
when we were going to do CG.
He was all for it
685
00:41:39,705 --> 00:41:44,502
once he realized, "I can just
wear this and it's going to look great."
686
00:41:46,462 --> 00:41:50,299
We started figuring out in shots
when to use pieces of the practical suit
687
00:41:50,382 --> 00:41:52,676
and finish the rest of it in CG.
688
00:41:53,761 --> 00:41:58,140
Because it was a mix,
hopefully the audience, never quite sure.
689
00:42:00,643 --> 00:42:02,102
"Is Robert Downey wearing that?"
690
00:42:02,186 --> 00:42:04,104
"Or is that? Well, that can't be,
you know,"
691
00:42:04,188 --> 00:42:06,982
"all those mechanisms underneath.
I guess that's CG."
692
00:42:07,691 --> 00:42:09,610
But, boy, that surface sure looks like
693
00:42:09,735 --> 00:42:11,946
it's something I could touch,
and that's part of it.
694
00:42:12,071 --> 00:42:15,866
If the audience just looks at something
and immediately understands in their brain
695
00:42:15,950 --> 00:42:19,578
what it would feel like to put their
hand on it, then you're halfway there.
696
00:42:19,703 --> 00:42:23,207
And lights, and action.
697
00:42:23,290 --> 00:42:26,752
There was a point when we were midway
through a review on the shot,
698
00:42:26,877 --> 00:42:30,506
and Jon was making a comment
about something in the real suit,
699
00:42:30,673 --> 00:42:35,261
and we said, "Well, actually,
it's all CG now. The whole thing is CG."
700
00:42:35,427 --> 00:42:37,638
I was giving notes on the practical suit.
701
00:42:37,805 --> 00:42:40,933
In other words, I couldn't tell
which was the digital suit
702
00:42:41,016 --> 00:42:44,144
and which was the real suit,
the real one that we had sculpted.
703
00:42:44,228 --> 00:42:46,105
And he's like, "Great. I didn't know that."
704
00:42:46,188 --> 00:42:48,566
"All right, well,
then I think we're good here."
705
00:42:48,649 --> 00:42:50,985
It's looking good,
anything else to look at?
706
00:42:51,110 --> 00:42:54,530
And that's when I knew that
I could really trust CGI,
707
00:42:54,613 --> 00:42:56,657
that they were holding a standard
708
00:42:56,740 --> 00:42:59,952
that was going to not distract
from the storytelling.
709
00:43:01,704 --> 00:43:03,038
Harper.
710
00:43:04,582 --> 00:43:05,958
Digital really opens up
711
00:43:06,041 --> 00:43:08,752
a whole different type of movie
that could be done.
712
00:43:08,877 --> 00:43:12,715
Some movies are designed to be invisible
visual effects.
713
00:43:12,798 --> 00:43:14,216
Forrest Gump has a lot of that.
714
00:43:16,135 --> 00:43:19,305
And if it carries an audience through
with an exciting moment
715
00:43:19,638 --> 00:43:22,016
that blends beautifully in
with the live action,
716
00:43:22,099 --> 00:43:23,475
that's what it's about.
717
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:25,686
There are two big threads of
718
00:43:25,769 --> 00:43:28,272
digital technology that have blossomed up,
you know.
719
00:43:28,355 --> 00:43:32,776
The big effects ones and then the ones
that every film can use a little bit of,
720
00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:35,821
and you don't even know there's stuff
there a lot of the time.
721
00:43:45,247 --> 00:43:47,958
When I came to do
The Underground Railroad, I thought,
722
00:43:48,042 --> 00:43:50,919
"I don't want CGI trains,
I don't want CGI tunnels."
723
00:43:54,506 --> 00:43:58,510
It would be a tragedy
if you're watching this thing,
724
00:43:58,594 --> 00:44:03,057
and the thing you notice most
is the artifice of the creation.
725
00:44:03,140 --> 00:44:06,310
So I felt like there was
a degree of realism
726
00:44:06,435 --> 00:44:08,145
that we wanted to approach.
727
00:44:08,771 --> 00:44:10,898
ILM and all these wonderful artists
728
00:44:10,981 --> 00:44:15,986
are capable of really taking
this image to this place
729
00:44:16,153 --> 00:44:19,281
beyond artifice to this place of realism.
730
00:44:20,449 --> 00:44:23,243
I love that some people watch
The Underground Railroad,
731
00:44:23,327 --> 00:44:25,204
which is 10 hours of trains and fire,
732
00:44:25,287 --> 00:44:28,165
and they go, "Yeah, and there's
very few visual effects, right?"
733
00:44:28,332 --> 00:44:31,877
I'm like... "Thank you."
734
00:44:32,086 --> 00:44:33,837
"And I would tell the folks at ILM."
735
00:44:33,962 --> 00:44:37,883
"You said that, but there are tons
of effects, tons of effects."
736
00:44:37,966 --> 00:44:40,094
Sometimes you want it to be,
this is going to be
737
00:44:40,177 --> 00:44:41,887
the best thing you're ever going to see.
738
00:44:41,970 --> 00:44:44,264
Sometimes you want to be
like nothing to see here.
739
00:44:44,348 --> 00:44:46,141
Oh, my God, that's so great.
740
00:44:46,225 --> 00:44:48,727
But at the end of the day,
it's a big shell game, right?
741
00:44:48,811 --> 00:44:52,606
So sometimes it's the story you're telling
when you're moving the shells around.
742
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:55,192
Just doing something
that's impossible
743
00:44:55,275 --> 00:44:57,486
used to be enough to impress somebody.
744
00:44:57,569 --> 00:45:00,197
Now, the driving force has to be something
745
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,616
that's more intrinsically
tied to the storytelling,
746
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:04,702
and the parts of the story
you really care about.
747
00:45:04,785 --> 00:45:06,495
Because just the magic trick on its own,
748
00:45:06,578 --> 00:45:10,290
people either know how it's done, or they
at least think they know how it's done.
749
00:45:10,374 --> 00:45:11,375
We care about humans.
750
00:45:11,458 --> 00:45:15,129
We think we like all of this digital stuff
and this visual effects stuff,
751
00:45:15,212 --> 00:45:17,214
and it's interesting,
but at the end of the day
752
00:45:17,297 --> 00:45:19,466
you really got to see another human.
753
00:45:19,591 --> 00:45:22,636
So we wanted to bring more
of the environment, live on set,
754
00:45:22,803 --> 00:45:26,181
so the actors had to act against
and the camera could actually see it.
755
00:45:28,308 --> 00:45:31,270
And The Mandalorian
was really the opportunity
756
00:45:31,353 --> 00:45:33,480
where we got to take all those ideas,
757
00:45:36,233 --> 00:45:38,610
and build it out at the largest scale.
758
00:45:38,861 --> 00:45:41,947
The technology was there.
Using newly available hardware,
759
00:45:42,114 --> 00:45:45,534
these fast video cards for gaming,
these really good screens,
760
00:45:45,617 --> 00:45:49,538
and motion capture technology,
so you had positional data on the camera.
761
00:45:49,621 --> 00:45:51,749
We made what we called the volume.
762
00:45:53,417 --> 00:45:55,794
Because that's what they call
a motion capture volume.
763
00:45:55,878 --> 00:45:58,630
It wasn't like we coined it.
We were just using that term.
764
00:45:58,839 --> 00:46:02,134
And the basic idea is,
what if you had a perfect screen
765
00:46:02,217 --> 00:46:05,888
that surrounded you almost 360 degrees
above you and all of your sides
766
00:46:05,971 --> 00:46:10,434
and you could make any digital environment
that you wanted to create on that wall.
767
00:46:11,101 --> 00:46:14,354
It's thousands of these small patches
that make up a seamless wall,
768
00:46:14,438 --> 00:46:15,898
and it's really kind of amazing.
769
00:46:15,981 --> 00:46:18,233
You can't even tell that
they're individual screens.
770
00:46:18,317 --> 00:46:21,403
It's just a continuous surface
to your eye and to the camera.
771
00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:26,241
It turned it from a system
of having to do blue screen
772
00:46:26,325 --> 00:46:28,577
or green screen composites
on everything to a system
773
00:46:28,660 --> 00:46:32,080
where what you see on the day
is what you get in the show.
774
00:46:34,374 --> 00:46:36,001
You can be anywhere in the world.
775
00:46:36,084 --> 00:46:40,672
So if you want to be in Iceland one day,
and you want to be in the desert the next,
776
00:46:40,756 --> 00:46:44,051
you can literally change between
those locations with a button click
777
00:46:44,134 --> 00:46:47,054
back at the computer
that's driving the volume.
778
00:46:47,137 --> 00:46:49,181
The real trick to what we're doing is that
779
00:46:49,264 --> 00:46:52,184
as the camera moves inside of this volume,
780
00:46:52,267 --> 00:46:55,729
there are little cameras
all around the volume itself
781
00:46:55,854 --> 00:46:58,315
that are paying attention
to where it's moving,
782
00:46:58,398 --> 00:47:01,401
and then correcting
the image on the screen
783
00:47:01,485 --> 00:47:06,740
so that the perspective of the image that
is being seen by the camera is correct.
784
00:47:06,907 --> 00:47:11,203
The parallax is locked in it perfect.
Your brain tells you it's real.
785
00:47:11,328 --> 00:47:15,874
Half the set might be made
practically, real props on the set,
786
00:47:16,208 --> 00:47:18,085
extend that off
into the distance digitally,
787
00:47:18,168 --> 00:47:19,962
and when you look at it
through the camera,
788
00:47:20,045 --> 00:47:21,964
it just looks like it's completely real.
789
00:47:22,047 --> 00:47:25,759
The cinematographer loved it because
you could actually compose your own shots.
790
00:47:25,843 --> 00:47:28,053
You weren't trusting it later
to a cop artist.
791
00:47:28,136 --> 00:47:30,097
I remember the guy from the studio came
792
00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:32,724
"and he says," I thought
you weren't building a set.
793
00:47:32,891 --> 00:47:35,143
"I thought we already,
we installed the screens."
794
00:47:35,227 --> 00:47:36,770
"We invested all that money."
795
00:47:36,854 --> 00:47:38,856
And I was like, "That's just the desk.
796
00:47:38,981 --> 00:47:41,191
"That's just the desk
and some boxes."
797
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:43,694
He didn't realize
that we were in the volume.
798
00:47:43,819 --> 00:47:45,195
It was all projected.
799
00:47:50,033 --> 00:47:53,829
The first day I went in for
an interview, actually, for Mandalorian,
800
00:47:54,037 --> 00:47:56,832
I didn't even know
what I was going to the meeting for.
801
00:47:57,082 --> 00:47:58,625
And then Jon walked in,
802
00:47:58,709 --> 00:48:02,629
and I was like, "Oh."
"Nobody had told me this at all."
803
00:48:02,754 --> 00:48:05,340
And then within five minutes,
I was in a VR headset,
804
00:48:05,424 --> 00:48:07,634
flying around one of the sets
for Mandalorian,
805
00:48:07,718 --> 00:48:09,219
one of the early prototypes.
806
00:48:09,303 --> 00:48:12,806
Jon told me later actually
that it was also his way of kind of seeing
807
00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:15,976
how quickly I would adapt to it
or how techie I was, basically.
808
00:48:16,059 --> 00:48:17,519
It was really quite simple for me
809
00:48:17,603 --> 00:48:19,980
because I had played enough
PlayStation in my life
810
00:48:20,063 --> 00:48:23,150
that the controllers are very similar,
so I got it pretty fast.
811
00:48:26,653 --> 00:48:30,240
Mandalorian was a very different
process for me
812
00:48:30,324 --> 00:48:33,118
because it was like no TV show
that I'd ever worked on.
813
00:48:34,369 --> 00:48:38,624
We were working very closely with
all the ILM team, right from the get-go,
814
00:48:38,707 --> 00:48:41,418
about how we're articulating things,
how we're building sets.
815
00:48:41,501 --> 00:48:45,631
So everybody had to collaborate in a way
that I've never seen happen before.
816
00:48:45,756 --> 00:48:47,841
Just because the nature of the technology
817
00:48:47,925 --> 00:48:50,552
and the dependence of people
knowing what each other are doing.
818
00:48:50,636 --> 00:48:53,221
Like, you'd have something like,
set dec creating something,
819
00:48:53,305 --> 00:48:54,723
but then it has to be photographed
820
00:48:54,806 --> 00:48:57,100
because it'll be on the volume
and you've got it both
821
00:48:57,184 --> 00:48:59,686
as a practical element
and a visual effects element.
822
00:49:00,729 --> 00:49:03,273
What's happening with something
like the volume
823
00:49:03,357 --> 00:49:08,278
and what we're doing with Mandalorian is
by taking that post process,
824
00:49:08,362 --> 00:49:12,407
the creation of those images
that usually we wouldn't see
825
00:49:12,491 --> 00:49:14,493
until months after shooting,
826
00:49:14,743 --> 00:49:17,913
and moving that
to the beginning of the process.
827
00:49:18,038 --> 00:49:20,999
All right, nice and quiet
all around, please, here we go.
828
00:49:21,083 --> 00:49:22,250
And play back!
829
00:49:22,542 --> 00:49:27,005
With actors who are being
directed by the director,
830
00:49:27,172 --> 00:49:30,676
with something they can see
and actually experience,
831
00:49:30,759 --> 00:49:33,095
I think you're getting back
to real film making.
832
00:49:33,178 --> 00:49:35,806
When you get all the departments
working on something
833
00:49:35,889 --> 00:49:40,102
that you have in camera on the day,
you bring back the expertise
834
00:49:40,185 --> 00:49:44,314
to the film making process on the day
and you get these wonderful coincidences.
835
00:49:44,398 --> 00:49:47,943
You get opportunities because
you have everything there on the day.
836
00:49:48,026 --> 00:49:50,362
Because you have
to make decisions up front,
837
00:49:50,529 --> 00:49:53,281
and you're using visual effects
techniques and tools
838
00:49:53,407 --> 00:49:55,701
as part of your principal photography,
839
00:49:55,784 --> 00:50:01,206
it changes the process, and you do have
to be very judicious with your decisions.
840
00:50:01,331 --> 00:50:05,127
And I actually think that that ends up
with a better end result.
841
00:50:06,378 --> 00:50:08,422
In traditional model building
and photography,
842
00:50:08,505 --> 00:50:11,591
you get happy accidents,
and those are things you can't capture.
843
00:50:11,675 --> 00:50:12,801
You can't invent that.
844
00:50:12,884 --> 00:50:16,388
But now, when you combine the two,
you can get the best of both worlds.
845
00:50:18,348 --> 00:50:20,350
On many of our shows, we would always say,
846
00:50:20,434 --> 00:50:23,603
"Well, can we do this traditionally?
Can we actually have a model shop?"
847
00:50:23,687 --> 00:50:25,480
"Can we build a model and photograph it?"
848
00:50:25,564 --> 00:50:27,941
And we would always get pushed back.
849
00:50:28,066 --> 00:50:30,944
And the difference for The Mandalorian
was that Jon loved it.
850
00:50:31,028 --> 00:50:33,071
Jon wanted
to build a practical model
851
00:50:33,155 --> 00:50:34,448
for The Mandalorian TV series.
852
00:50:34,531 --> 00:50:36,533
I get this phone call about once a year,
853
00:50:36,616 --> 00:50:40,412
and it sounds great and all that stuff,
but, whatever. It never happens.
854
00:50:41,621 --> 00:50:43,915
And then it actually happened.
855
00:50:44,207 --> 00:50:45,751
They did a 3D print,
856
00:50:45,876 --> 00:50:48,962
which was like getting a deck of cards,
was like 50 little pieces.
857
00:50:49,463 --> 00:50:50,464
Put it all together.
858
00:50:50,589 --> 00:50:53,508
It built a two-foot model,
and it was so cool.
859
00:50:53,633 --> 00:50:56,053
And then John Knoll
built a motion-control system.
860
00:50:56,970 --> 00:51:01,224
Next thing I know, I'm hearing that
John Knoll is building a rig.
861
00:51:01,308 --> 00:51:04,561
Now, we didn't ask him to build a rig.
This wasn't part of the pitch.
862
00:51:04,644 --> 00:51:06,188
The pitch was, "Could we do a shot?"
863
00:51:06,313 --> 00:51:08,190
He starts doing it
like he's in the AV club,
864
00:51:08,273 --> 00:51:11,359
in the basement at ILM, at LDAC,
and he's making this thing,
865
00:51:11,443 --> 00:51:14,863
and next thing you know, everybody's
coming around to see what it is,
866
00:51:14,946 --> 00:51:17,824
because, you know,
it's like Tom Sawyer painting the fence.
867
00:51:17,949 --> 00:51:20,660
So that's what's making The Mandalorian
feel like Star Wars,
868
00:51:20,744 --> 00:51:24,122
is we're inheriting this legacy,
this energy.
869
00:51:27,167 --> 00:51:29,419
And that shot was glorious.
870
00:51:34,007 --> 00:51:38,929
That's really what I appreciate most
about George Lucas specifically.
871
00:51:39,012 --> 00:51:44,518
But this whole generation of filmmakers
is that there was an eye to the past
872
00:51:44,601 --> 00:51:47,521
and an eye to the future
and into innovation.
873
00:51:49,689 --> 00:51:53,193
Jon Favreau
and Dave Filoni and I,
874
00:51:53,401 --> 00:51:55,987
from the moment we started talking about
875
00:51:56,113 --> 00:51:59,241
creating the volume,
all we did was talk about George.
876
00:52:01,493 --> 00:52:06,081
Because he was already anticipating
a lot of what we've ended up doing.
877
00:52:21,096 --> 00:52:24,015
The first thing he did when he walked on
was he was like,
878
00:52:24,099 --> 00:52:27,352
"Hey, this is what I've been trying
to tell everybody we had to do."
879
00:52:27,435 --> 00:52:28,812
Very George.
880
00:52:29,896 --> 00:52:34,609
But I think he was incredibly thrilled
to see that it was actually being done
881
00:52:34,693 --> 00:52:37,404
in the way that he did
envision in his mind,
882
00:52:37,612 --> 00:52:41,032
and anything that pushes
digital film making,
883
00:52:41,241 --> 00:52:43,618
that is so near and dear to his heart.
884
00:52:48,248 --> 00:52:50,750
What he was able to achieve
with a lot of time and money
885
00:52:50,834 --> 00:52:54,379
with the prequels, we were able to do
on a TV schedule and budget
886
00:52:54,462 --> 00:52:57,841
because we were afforded all of that
through the technological innovations
887
00:52:57,924 --> 00:52:59,676
that had happened since he had done that.
888
00:53:08,310 --> 00:53:10,770
So when he comes in,
it feels like a satisfying thing
889
00:53:10,854 --> 00:53:14,482
because finally, what he
saw in his head, we could do.
890
00:53:20,572 --> 00:53:22,866
The thing that I love
about the industry
891
00:53:22,949 --> 00:53:25,285
is that we are always doing something new.
892
00:53:25,368 --> 00:53:29,664
Therefore, you have to have
an affinity for danger.
893
00:53:29,748 --> 00:53:31,958
You have to have
an affinity for taking risks.
894
00:53:32,042 --> 00:53:36,421
You have to not be scared of that
and actually be energized by that.
895
00:53:37,005 --> 00:53:40,342
And that unique passion in the way
896
00:53:40,425 --> 00:53:44,554
that we are pushing the industry
is still there.
897
00:53:44,638 --> 00:53:48,225
That's the thing that
always strikes me about ILM.
898
00:53:48,308 --> 00:53:51,269
It's like this brain
that is always thinking.
899
00:53:51,603 --> 00:53:53,813
Industrial Light and Magic
900
00:53:55,232 --> 00:53:58,693
is the three key ingredients to
901
00:54:00,070 --> 00:54:02,822
a film, a successful film,
902
00:54:02,948 --> 00:54:07,327
and George encapsulated it
in those three words.
903
00:54:07,410 --> 00:54:09,829
It's an industry.
Things have to be done on time.
904
00:54:09,913 --> 00:54:12,999
They have to be done for a price.
There has to be pragmatism.
905
00:54:13,083 --> 00:54:16,962
And then the light. Of course,
this is that we are shining the light,
906
00:54:17,045 --> 00:54:19,923
and it isn't just light on the screen.
907
00:54:20,298 --> 00:54:21,883
It's light in our lives.
908
00:54:21,967 --> 00:54:24,761
And the magic is the innovation
909
00:54:24,886 --> 00:54:28,848
that we do at the company,
both in terms of art and science.
910
00:54:29,099 --> 00:54:33,270
It's super ingrained in the culture
and will continue for a long time.
911
00:54:41,403 --> 00:54:44,406
There's no other visual effects company
that's been around as long,
912
00:54:44,489 --> 00:54:47,826
and so they always had this connectivity
all the way back to, you know,
913
00:54:47,909 --> 00:54:53,039
these guys setting up shop in a warehouse
in Van Nuys in '75 to make Star Wars.
914
00:54:54,207 --> 00:54:56,668
It felt like there were all these elements
915
00:54:56,793 --> 00:54:59,796
that came together
to put me in this situation
916
00:54:59,879 --> 00:55:01,548
that can never be repeated.
917
00:55:02,590 --> 00:55:05,051
A lot of chance things came together.
918
00:55:05,302 --> 00:55:09,431
But at heart, it was also because
George wanted to make it happen.
919
00:55:09,889 --> 00:55:12,684
He knew he had a problem.
He didn't know how to solve it.
920
00:55:12,892 --> 00:55:16,021
"But he knew" If I take this person
and that person and this person,
921
00:55:16,146 --> 00:55:18,690
"I put them together,
maybe I'll get to the solution."
922
00:55:18,773 --> 00:55:23,153
The whole process was like,
"I got a job in the circus,"
923
00:55:23,278 --> 00:55:26,031
you know,
and that's what I wanted to do.
924
00:55:26,489 --> 00:55:28,950
I don't care, I'll clean up
the elephants.
925
00:55:29,034 --> 00:55:31,870
Or you know, whatever, you know,
I just want to be there.
926
00:55:32,746 --> 00:55:36,708
There was something here about
the people and the spirit and, you know,
927
00:55:36,791 --> 00:55:40,253
the source of where we came from
and why we're here, and the talent,
928
00:55:40,879 --> 00:55:43,923
and the mixture of art and technology.
929
00:55:44,507 --> 00:55:46,801
Being around such a talented group,
930
00:55:47,218 --> 00:55:51,181
feeding off of them, getting stuff from
them and then trying to give stuff back.
931
00:55:51,848 --> 00:55:55,935
I really feel that
the original team of rebels
932
00:55:56,102 --> 00:55:57,896
that George pulled together
933
00:55:58,271 --> 00:56:03,318
that had the audacity to think
that his vision was possible,
934
00:56:03,777 --> 00:56:05,445
that still lives.
935
00:56:05,528 --> 00:56:09,616
This idea that just because it hasn't
been done, doesn't mean it can't be done.
936
00:56:11,242 --> 00:56:15,663
That's what makes ILM what it is.
I believe we all feel that.
937
00:56:17,290 --> 00:56:20,543
That we can do anything.
And I don't know that there's ever
938
00:56:20,668 --> 00:56:24,756
been another collection of people
that could say that with such conviction.
939
00:56:24,839 --> 00:56:28,510
Working with ILM is like working with,
you know, I don't know, Marlon Brando
940
00:56:28,593 --> 00:56:32,389
or someone, early Brando.
But like, you're going to do the best
941
00:56:32,472 --> 00:56:34,641
you can to work with them,
collaborate with them.
942
00:56:34,724 --> 00:56:37,018
But they're Marlon Brando.
943
00:56:39,437 --> 00:56:43,483
ILM is full of these people
who are geniuses
944
00:56:43,733 --> 00:56:47,529
and are pushing the envelope all the time.
945
00:56:48,571 --> 00:56:51,491
One of the things I loved so much
about working there is that there was
946
00:56:51,574 --> 00:56:54,536
a whole studio full of people
that were more talented,
947
00:56:54,619 --> 00:56:56,579
smarter and more experienced than I was,
948
00:56:56,663 --> 00:56:58,832
that I could draw on and be inspired by.
949
00:56:59,290 --> 00:57:03,545
There wasn't a day either on the set
950
00:57:03,837 --> 00:57:06,714
or painting that I didn't learn something.
951
00:57:06,923 --> 00:57:10,510
ILM was like, you know,
as much of a job as it was a school.
952
00:57:11,052 --> 00:57:15,807
I'll never graduate from ILM
and I'll never leave the halls of ILM.
953
00:57:15,890 --> 00:57:18,893
It made the way that I thought okay.
954
00:57:18,977 --> 00:57:20,687
It was a playground,
955
00:57:20,895 --> 00:57:23,773
and I looked forward
every day to going to work.
956
00:57:24,107 --> 00:57:26,818
My favorite place is
to be on the edge of discovery.
957
00:57:26,901 --> 00:57:28,778
That's the best feeling in the world.
958
00:57:28,862 --> 00:57:31,948
I want to work with people
that inspire me, that push me.
959
00:57:32,031 --> 00:57:34,617
I think that is the spirit of ILM
960
00:57:35,702 --> 00:57:38,163
that is inherent in everybody
that I've met there.
961
00:57:38,246 --> 00:57:41,166
It's always sleeves rolled up,
and "Here's what we're thinking."
962
00:57:41,291 --> 00:57:43,793
"What are you thinking?"
"Here's what we think we can do."
963
00:57:43,877 --> 00:57:44,919
"Let's talk."
964
00:57:46,963 --> 00:57:49,424
And it goes back to that original group,
965
00:57:49,966 --> 00:57:52,844
that were just unpretentious,
yet brilliant people.
966
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,639
You work on a lot of movies
through your lifetime.
967
00:57:56,764 --> 00:58:01,561
You know, you'll be lucky
if you work on two or three that are,
968
00:58:01,644 --> 00:58:04,063
you know, hugely successful to the public.
969
00:58:04,439 --> 00:58:08,860
But what you walk away with
is the family that you've built.
970
00:58:10,612 --> 00:58:13,239
The magic at ILM,
really was the people.
971
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:17,368
The camaraderie was something
that I don't think you
972
00:58:18,620 --> 00:58:21,080
you can ever experience
in several lifetimes.
973
00:58:21,372 --> 00:58:22,707
It was a true joy.
974
00:58:23,583 --> 00:58:29,547
I can't think of anything that I would
have gone back and done differently.
975
00:58:30,381 --> 00:58:33,551
I still don't get it.
It's sort of like a weird dream.
976
00:58:34,219 --> 00:58:36,095
I think back at it and go, "No, no."
977
00:58:36,304 --> 00:58:39,140
"It couldn't have been like that
'cause it's too perfect."
978
00:58:39,224 --> 00:58:42,185
I got to work on some of the best movies
people still talk about.
979
00:58:42,268 --> 00:58:43,770
It makes no sense to me.
980
00:58:44,854 --> 00:58:46,940
Um...
981
00:58:48,316 --> 00:58:53,446
I'm still astounded
by how well it has gone.
982
00:58:53,696 --> 00:58:56,658
Some great people here
and we're still friends.
983
00:58:56,741 --> 00:59:00,119
I'm friends with them after, like,
40 years or so and it's...
984
00:59:01,579 --> 00:59:03,122
It's been terrific.
985
00:59:05,667 --> 00:59:10,004
My daughter, she comes to me
and she says, "Dad, I have a problem"
986
00:59:10,088 --> 00:59:12,257
"I need to talk to you about."
What she would do,
987
00:59:12,340 --> 00:59:16,469
every night after dinner, she would
go up to her room, shut her door,
988
00:59:16,553 --> 00:59:19,305
and she had all these plastic animals,
and she would come up
989
00:59:19,389 --> 00:59:21,474
with different scenarios for the animals.
990
00:59:21,975 --> 00:59:24,811
Just like I did with army men
and plastic dinosaurs.
991
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:26,521
So she said,
992
00:59:26,604 --> 00:59:30,733
"My problem is like I'm getting too old
to be playing with toys."
993
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:32,527
"That makes me sad."
994
00:59:33,236 --> 00:59:36,281
And I said, "Maya,
if you become a filmmaker",
995
00:59:36,406 --> 00:59:41,244
"you never have to grow up."
And we grab the Hi8 camera,
996
00:59:41,327 --> 00:59:45,748
and we just went out and we just started
in the backyard, that moment.