1
00:00:16,641 --> 00:00:20,437
I grew up on a farm in Modesto.
2
00:00:26,317 --> 00:00:30,864
Like most kids that grew up in the Valley,
I had a strong interest in cruising.
3
00:00:34,367 --> 00:00:38,413
I wandered around and spent most of
my youth roaming the streets of the town.
4
00:00:40,874 --> 00:00:45,045
Following the path that I was on,
I was sort of flunking out of high school.
5
00:00:45,378 --> 00:00:47,047
My mother kept worrying about me.
6
00:00:47,630 --> 00:00:49,591
"He's not going to amount to anything."
7
00:00:50,133 --> 00:00:52,510
My father kept saying,
"He's a late bloomer.
8
00:00:52,844 --> 00:00:55,555
"Don't worry about it.
He's a late bloomer."
9
00:00:56,306 --> 00:00:59,309
Driving cars, going fast.
I really liked that.
10
00:00:59,893 --> 00:01:01,311
I liked the sensation of it.
11
00:01:02,937 --> 00:01:05,648
I wanted to be a car mechanic,
I wanted to race cars.
12
00:01:06,941 --> 00:01:10,361
At the time, in high school,
I had a very little car,
13
00:01:10,445 --> 00:01:12,781
it was, you know, that big, and I was
14
00:01:12,864 --> 00:01:15,784
turning into my driveway,
it was a country road,
15
00:01:16,618 --> 00:01:20,538
and uh, there was this guy.
16
00:01:21,539 --> 00:01:23,625
So he was going about 90 miles an hour.
17
00:01:23,833 --> 00:01:25,043
I didn't see him coming.
18
00:01:25,376 --> 00:01:26,836
I hear a horn honk
19
00:01:29,339 --> 00:01:30,340
And then I'm gone.
20
00:01:32,092 --> 00:01:33,218
They hit me broadside.
21
00:01:33,843 --> 00:01:37,013
My car rolled about seven or eight times,
wrapped around a tree.
22
00:01:37,722 --> 00:01:39,849
And when I woke up,
the first thing I heard
23
00:01:39,933 --> 00:01:43,603
the nurse saying, "Don't worry,
you have all your arms and legs."
24
00:01:44,896 --> 00:01:46,272
I said, "What do you mean?"
25
00:01:49,526 --> 00:01:51,778
Everybody kept saying,
"You should be dead."
26
00:01:57,492 --> 00:02:02,664
That's when I decided that, you know,
maybe there's a reason I'm here.
27
00:02:54,340 --> 00:02:56,777
My father wanted me to go
into the stationery business
28
00:02:56,801 --> 00:02:58,511
and run an office equipment store.
29
00:02:59,304 --> 00:03:03,349
They built it up for me to take over,
and I said, "I don't want that."
30
00:03:04,267 --> 00:03:07,270
I'll never work at a job
where I have to do the same thing
31
00:03:07,353 --> 00:03:08,855
over and over again every day.
32
00:03:09,397 --> 00:03:12,317
It was probably the biggest disagreement
we ever got into.
33
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,737
I said, "Well, I'll just go to school.
I mean, I'll go to college."
34
00:03:15,820 --> 00:03:17,906
You know, this is during the Vietnam War.
35
00:03:18,948 --> 00:03:21,701
The only thing I could get into
was the junior college.
36
00:03:23,077 --> 00:03:25,705
I took lots of classes
in the social sciences,
37
00:03:25,997 --> 00:03:29,626
psychology and anthropology,
and I got really hooked on it.
38
00:03:29,709 --> 00:03:31,669
I said, "This is great. I love this."
39
00:03:31,753 --> 00:03:35,215
And one of the books I had to read
was The Hero with a Thousand Faces.
40
00:03:36,007 --> 00:03:40,053
And I got very intrigued with the idea
of how you build a society.
41
00:03:40,929 --> 00:03:44,807
It was all done by stories,
mythologies, heroes.
42
00:03:49,437 --> 00:03:54,567
It really wasn't until my junior year of
college that I discovered film.
43
00:03:56,778 --> 00:03:58,029
Ended up at USC.
44
00:04:00,573 --> 00:04:03,868
Suddenly I was seeing all kinds of
films that I'd never seen before.
45
00:04:04,619 --> 00:04:07,038
Complete eye-opener.
It was just a whole new world.
46
00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:11,209
It's one of those things you eat,
sleep and drink movies,
47
00:04:11,292 --> 00:04:12,919
and you love every second of it.
48
00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:18,883
I instantly knew
that this was for me, that this was it.
49
00:04:20,551 --> 00:04:22,011
I didn't know what a filmmaker was.
50
00:04:22,095 --> 00:04:24,472
I didn't know what a producer was
or a director or anything.
51
00:04:24,555 --> 00:04:30,645
All I knew was that I wanted to make film
and whatever that entails.
52
00:04:32,063 --> 00:04:35,483
First semester there,
and I started making student films.
53
00:04:36,276 --> 00:04:38,361
Took the Cinema department by storm.
54
00:04:40,697 --> 00:04:46,160
We met in the '60s
when he premiered THX 1138,
55
00:04:46,244 --> 00:04:48,705
his short film, during a film festival.
56
00:04:48,955 --> 00:04:50,373
George won first prize.
57
00:04:50,456 --> 00:04:56,504
THX 11384EB. This is Authority.
You will stop where you are.
58
00:04:57,422 --> 00:05:00,425
I basically said,
"I'll never make a movie that good."
59
00:05:02,010 --> 00:05:05,763
One of the things that really bonded us
was we made movies for the audience,
60
00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:08,308
even more than making
movies for ourselves.
61
00:05:09,517 --> 00:05:11,519
All of my friends,
62
00:05:11,602 --> 00:05:13,521
they were all people who loved movies.
63
00:05:13,604 --> 00:05:15,606
None of them were interested
in making money.
64
00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:17,817
They were just interested
in making movies.
65
00:05:21,029 --> 00:05:24,907
Lucas is out of school now,
working with Francis Ford Coppola,
66
00:05:25,158 --> 00:05:28,578
himself, a recent graduate
of the film school at UCLA.
67
00:05:29,162 --> 00:05:31,581
Coppola is directing The Rain People,
68
00:05:31,664 --> 00:05:33,958
his third professional film
for Warner Bros.,
69
00:05:34,584 --> 00:05:37,628
and Lucas is making a movie
of him making a movie.
70
00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:41,007
The idea is you got to really...
71
00:05:41,090 --> 00:05:43,259
You've got to really want to do something
72
00:05:43,343 --> 00:05:45,720
and then nothing can stop you, I believe.
73
00:05:46,262 --> 00:05:49,724
Would you tell us something
about your young assistant, George Lucas?
74
00:05:49,807 --> 00:05:52,685
Well, he's not my assistant, actually,
he's an associate.
75
00:05:52,769 --> 00:05:54,937
- Okay.
- George won an award to come to
76
00:05:55,021 --> 00:05:57,440
Warner Bros. And observe
a film being made there.
77
00:05:57,523 --> 00:06:00,568
So we were making Finian's Rainbow,
and I see this skinny kid with a beard
78
00:06:00,651 --> 00:06:02,362
and always looking. I said, "Who's that?"
79
00:06:02,445 --> 00:06:04,447
And he said, "He's observing you."
80
00:06:04,530 --> 00:06:05,698
On Finian's Rainbow,
81
00:06:05,782 --> 00:06:08,826
we were the only two people
on the set under 50 years old,
82
00:06:09,911 --> 00:06:12,163
and the only two
that had gone to film school.
83
00:06:12,246 --> 00:06:13,289
We had an affinity.
84
00:06:13,706 --> 00:06:16,542
We were young and very much
against the establishment.
85
00:06:17,794 --> 00:06:21,381
And so in '69, we went to San Francisco.
86
00:06:22,048 --> 00:06:24,801
Both Francis and I said,
"This is where we should be."
87
00:06:29,138 --> 00:06:31,891
Not too many lobbies that have
a friendly pool table right here.
88
00:06:31,974 --> 00:06:34,519
That's true.
We hope that at 3:00 in the morning,
89
00:06:34,644 --> 00:06:37,814
that will be a comfort and an aid
when we're working on a film
90
00:06:37,897 --> 00:06:39,690
in the other room. This is the main...
91
00:06:39,774 --> 00:06:42,652
We bought mixing equipment
and editing equipment.
92
00:06:44,195 --> 00:06:46,406
We were building a little studio there.
93
00:06:47,365 --> 00:06:49,158
We would do everything ourselves.
94
00:06:50,910 --> 00:06:54,122
I got to take one of my student films
and turn it into a feature.
95
00:06:58,793 --> 00:07:00,753
One Coppola production was filmed
96
00:07:00,878 --> 00:07:03,589
in a garage at
the San Francisco International Airport.
97
00:07:04,090 --> 00:07:09,345
A science fiction story written
and directed by George Lucas, who is 25.
98
00:07:09,429 --> 00:07:12,098
Lucas and his wife
are editing the film themselves.
99
00:07:12,181 --> 00:07:15,435
Although Warner Bros. Agreed
to finance and release it,
100
00:07:15,518 --> 00:07:18,062
Lucas retained complete creative control.
101
00:07:19,522 --> 00:07:21,649
In terms of my film, have complete freedom
102
00:07:21,732 --> 00:07:23,317
to say whatever I want to say.
103
00:07:23,526 --> 00:07:26,028
Right, wrong or indifferent.
At least I can say it.
104
00:07:27,071 --> 00:07:32,118
THX is pronounced
incurable and shall be held in detention.
105
00:07:32,201 --> 00:07:35,830
With Warner Bros., they didn't come up
here and look at what I was doing,
106
00:07:35,913 --> 00:07:38,416
and I don't know whether
they even read the script.
107
00:07:38,499 --> 00:07:41,586
We finally showed him the cut, and they
were like, "Oh, my God, what is this?"
108
00:07:44,672 --> 00:07:46,841
Evacuate.
All magna personnel...
109
00:07:46,924 --> 00:07:48,426
The board didn't like it.
110
00:07:48,634 --> 00:07:52,180
And they chopped it up.
They ended up cutting out five minutes
111
00:07:52,263 --> 00:07:54,182
and some of it was really good stuff.
112
00:07:55,141 --> 00:07:57,059
There's nothing worse than the frustration
113
00:07:57,143 --> 00:07:59,770
of having somebody
who doesn't get what you're doing
114
00:07:59,854 --> 00:08:01,772
trying to turn it into something else.
115
00:08:02,815 --> 00:08:05,151
And as a result of our disagreements
116
00:08:05,234 --> 00:08:10,406
with Warner Bros.
Over the final cut of THX,
117
00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:14,535
we ended up losing a lot of our projects
that we were gonna be doing for them.
118
00:08:16,037 --> 00:08:20,666
The company we had built together,
American Zoetrope, went bankrupt.
119
00:08:20,750 --> 00:08:22,919
So Francis went off and did The Godfather.
120
00:08:24,337 --> 00:08:25,338
He told me, he said,
121
00:08:25,421 --> 00:08:29,342
"Enough of this artsy fartsy,
science fiction, strange movies."
122
00:08:29,425 --> 00:08:30,843
"I want you to do a comedy."
123
00:08:31,385 --> 00:08:33,095
"Prove to me you can do a comedy."
124
00:08:41,062 --> 00:08:45,024
The first time that I met George
was an audition for a movie that he had
125
00:08:45,107 --> 00:08:47,568
with an indecipherable title,
American Graffiti.
126
00:08:47,652 --> 00:08:49,278
I had to look up the word "graffiti,"
127
00:08:49,403 --> 00:08:54,575
because I didn't know what it was,
and there were things about George
128
00:08:54,825 --> 00:08:57,119
that I found mystifying as an actor.
129
00:08:57,203 --> 00:08:59,539
He doesn't really do actor speak.
130
00:08:59,705 --> 00:09:01,499
He's a little cryptic.
131
00:09:01,874 --> 00:09:05,419
He talks about an atmosphere, a world.
132
00:09:06,462 --> 00:09:10,925
And I remember it took six auditions
over a period of about six months
133
00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:13,594
for all of us to wind up being chosen.
134
00:09:17,473 --> 00:09:19,350
I joked with him about that at one point.
135
00:09:19,433 --> 00:09:22,770
He said, "Yeah, well, it took me
that long to pick the cars, too."
136
00:09:26,315 --> 00:09:30,069
I was fascinated when we were
shooting American Graffiti
137
00:09:30,194 --> 00:09:34,907
by the freedom he gave the actors,
but also by the world creation of it.
138
00:09:35,074 --> 00:09:38,119
And I wouldn't have known
to use that term then.
139
00:09:42,081 --> 00:09:44,458
The cars were as important to him.
140
00:09:45,167 --> 00:09:47,253
A lot of it's from my own experience.
141
00:09:48,087 --> 00:09:50,506
At the time, cruising was gone,
142
00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:54,427
and I really felt compelled
to sort of document the intimate nature
143
00:09:54,510 --> 00:09:56,679
of man's relationship to machine.
144
00:09:57,179 --> 00:10:00,516
Cruising was
a uniquely American mating ritual.
145
00:10:08,858 --> 00:10:09,859
What did you say?
146
00:10:09,942 --> 00:10:11,152
Wait. What did you say?
147
00:10:11,235 --> 00:10:12,278
What did you say?
148
00:10:13,321 --> 00:10:16,198
On some kind of subliminal level,
149
00:10:17,908 --> 00:10:19,744
it obviously clicked with audiences.
150
00:10:23,581 --> 00:10:25,851
It was a big moment for me because
I really did sit down and told myself,
151
00:10:25,875 --> 00:10:27,293
"Okay, now I am a director."
152
00:10:27,376 --> 00:10:30,004
"Now I know I can be creative
in a way that I enjoy."
153
00:10:32,590 --> 00:10:35,593
One day we had been
standing around Mel's Diner,
154
00:10:36,135 --> 00:10:39,221
and I said to George,
"What do you think you want to do next?"
155
00:10:39,555 --> 00:10:41,766
And he said,
"Well, I like science fiction.
156
00:10:42,475 --> 00:10:44,310
"The advances that Kubrick made,
157
00:10:45,603 --> 00:10:48,397
"I want to apply that
to Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon
158
00:10:48,564 --> 00:10:50,858
"kinds of movies, like a movie serial.
159
00:10:51,942 --> 00:10:55,363
"Combine that with 2001 special effects,
160
00:10:56,113 --> 00:10:58,491
"but the ships go real fast."
161
00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:01,535
And that's kind of all he said.
162
00:11:01,661 --> 00:11:02,912
That was about all I had.
163
00:11:04,121 --> 00:11:06,123
I was just searching for a story,
164
00:11:06,707 --> 00:11:09,293
and then I thought "mythology."
165
00:11:10,795 --> 00:11:14,882
The idea that a society creates
heroes that they can admire.
166
00:11:16,050 --> 00:11:20,930
But I could see it as a mechanism,
a universal reality.
167
00:11:24,475 --> 00:11:27,812
So I said I want to do one of those,
only a modern version of that.
168
00:11:27,895 --> 00:11:30,022
Well, first I had to do a story treatment.
169
00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:35,236
I am not the greatest writer in the world.
170
00:11:37,905 --> 00:11:40,658
I'd taken a proposal
to a couple of studios,
171
00:11:40,783 --> 00:11:43,494
and they had turned it down,
completely confused by it.
172
00:11:44,161 --> 00:11:46,038
Robots and Wookiees.
173
00:11:46,664 --> 00:11:50,084
They couldn't read it and say,
"I understand what this is all about."
174
00:11:50,167 --> 00:11:53,879
Science fiction was not something
that did well at the box office.
175
00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:56,799
On top of that,
it was aimed at young people
176
00:11:56,882 --> 00:11:59,427
and most of the studios said,
"Look, Disney does that."
177
00:11:59,510 --> 00:12:01,095
"The rest of us can't do that."
178
00:12:16,235 --> 00:12:18,195
I knew I was going to have to sell it.
179
00:12:19,029 --> 00:12:20,740
A picture is worth a thousand words.
180
00:12:23,826 --> 00:12:28,497
I hired an illustrator, Ralph McQuarrie,
to draw the characters that I had done.
181
00:12:35,379 --> 00:12:37,173
When he showed me those paintings, I said,
182
00:12:37,256 --> 00:12:38,966
"That's exactly what I want."
183
00:12:39,049 --> 00:12:40,593
"I've got 100 ideas here."
184
00:12:40,676 --> 00:12:42,803
"Do this scene.
Do this scene, do this scene."
185
00:12:50,144 --> 00:12:53,272
The paintings inspired me
to keep writing the script,
186
00:12:53,397 --> 00:12:55,566
and that's how
I got through it.
187
00:12:55,649 --> 00:12:57,693
The picture was going to be
188
00:12:57,777 --> 00:13:03,282
a wonderful visual experience
as much as being a story.
189
00:13:03,532 --> 00:13:05,910
It was going to be like
a roller-coaster ride.
190
00:13:07,703 --> 00:13:10,498
Full of things that would make
the audience go, "Wow."
191
00:13:10,581 --> 00:13:12,500
"Oh!"
192
00:13:12,750 --> 00:13:17,254
At the same time, the new
Fox Studio executive, Alan Ladd, Jr.
193
00:13:17,671 --> 00:13:19,465
Saw American Graffiti and loved it.
194
00:13:27,264 --> 00:13:30,351
I showed him the drawings
and he said, "Wow, what's it about?"
195
00:13:30,434 --> 00:13:34,688
I said, "Well, that's kind of a space
opera, old-fashioned feel about it",
196
00:13:35,356 --> 00:13:38,150
"and there's a giant dog
that flies with the hero,"
197
00:13:38,234 --> 00:13:40,945
"and it's very hard to get what this is."
198
00:13:56,627 --> 00:13:59,922
We had a special effects budget
on that movie of $2 million,
199
00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:02,800
which now won't even buy you a shot.
200
00:14:04,927 --> 00:14:08,305
In the beginning, Fox was not very...
Who were financing the film,
201
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:11,475
weren't very interested in building
a new special effects company
202
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,562
that would just be specifically
for making Star Wars.
203
00:14:15,437 --> 00:14:18,899
So setting up ILM, I spent about
half a million dollars.
204
00:14:19,775 --> 00:14:22,570
Paying for it myself
out of American Graffiti money.
205
00:14:26,657 --> 00:14:28,868
And that's one of those things,
if you get one guy
206
00:14:28,951 --> 00:14:30,035
who's really good,
207
00:14:32,204 --> 00:14:34,248
he'll bring all the other people with him.
208
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:39,461
It was an organism
209
00:14:40,754 --> 00:14:41,964
that grew.
210
00:14:43,591 --> 00:14:46,802
We were thinking of names,
and most of the names were really bad.
211
00:14:46,886 --> 00:14:49,889
But I thought, well,
we were in a warehouse,
212
00:14:49,972 --> 00:14:54,476
so it was very industrial, and we were
using magic and light to create things.
213
00:14:55,227 --> 00:14:56,729
It just popped into my head.
214
00:14:56,812 --> 00:14:59,440
I said, "I'm going to call it
Industrial Light and Magic."
215
00:15:03,319 --> 00:15:06,280
And I was going off to England,
Tunisia to shoot the film.
216
00:15:06,697 --> 00:15:08,365
Action!
217
00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:11,660
I've got to rest before I fall apart.
218
00:15:11,744 --> 00:15:13,329
My joints are almost frozen.
219
00:15:16,957 --> 00:15:19,376
I was in such bad shape
when I was in Tunisia.
220
00:15:20,586 --> 00:15:21,795
Everything went wrong.
221
00:15:22,004 --> 00:15:25,633
The whole set blew down overnight
and we had to shoot the next day.
222
00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:26,967
We had nothing, no sets.
223
00:15:27,051 --> 00:15:28,886
It was just one thing after another.
224
00:15:40,981 --> 00:15:43,859
People ask me, "Well, what's the secret
of making movies?"
225
00:15:44,610 --> 00:15:45,736
I said, "Persistence."
226
00:15:46,946 --> 00:15:49,073
That's the only way you can describe it.
227
00:15:49,365 --> 00:15:53,160
And if you give up or you,
you know, falter, you can't do it.
228
00:15:53,827 --> 00:15:57,247
You've got to be persistent
under impossible conditions.
229
00:15:58,666 --> 00:16:02,086
So I got on the airplane to fly home,
first place I went was ILM.
230
00:16:10,511 --> 00:16:14,598
When I came back, we had less than a year
left to do the special effects.
231
00:16:15,057 --> 00:16:16,642
They'd spent a million dollars
232
00:16:17,101 --> 00:16:22,856
and they had... I don't know, three shots.
233
00:16:23,607 --> 00:16:24,775
George was very angry.
234
00:16:24,858 --> 00:16:28,988
You know, you could feel it in the room,
even if he wasn't necessarily in the room.
235
00:16:29,947 --> 00:16:32,366
I know he was unhappy,
but I don't know whether
236
00:16:32,449 --> 00:16:35,119
he was unhappy with me or the situation.
237
00:16:35,536 --> 00:16:37,955
The studio was breathing down his neck.
238
00:16:38,038 --> 00:16:39,790
I don't think he was feeling well.
239
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,044
One day, I needed to go to editorial
and grab some piece of film for something,
240
00:16:44,128 --> 00:16:47,631
and you had to go through
the screening room to get to editorial.
241
00:16:47,715 --> 00:16:51,885
Ran up full of energy,
went flying into the screening room.
242
00:16:52,469 --> 00:16:56,724
George and Dykstra
were in a heated argument, yelling,
243
00:16:56,807 --> 00:16:58,892
and I just ran right in the middle of it.
244
00:17:00,185 --> 00:17:02,312
I don't even know what it was about.
245
00:17:15,868 --> 00:17:19,496
We were buried doing the work
of building the equipment
246
00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:22,291
and the miniatures 18 hours a day.
247
00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:28,589
So, that we hadn't succeeded
getting it all done
248
00:17:28,672 --> 00:17:33,510
and executing the shots
was the least of my worries at that time.
249
00:17:34,053 --> 00:17:37,139
Ended up on my way home,
flying from LA to San Francisco,
250
00:17:37,222 --> 00:17:39,182
"thinking," Oh, my God,
this isn't going to work.
251
00:17:39,349 --> 00:17:42,061
"This is a mess
and you'll never get to work again."
252
00:17:42,144 --> 00:17:44,730
And I was having severe chest pains.
253
00:17:44,855 --> 00:17:48,984
They took me to the hospital because they
thought I might be having a heart attack.
254
00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:51,278
They said, "Have you been
under a lot of pressure?"
255
00:17:51,361 --> 00:17:54,364
I said, "Yeah."
They said, "Well, it's probably that.
256
00:17:54,448 --> 00:17:56,533
"Take some aspirins,
call us in the morning."
257
00:17:56,617 --> 00:17:58,160
Because it wasn't a heart attack.
258
00:17:58,243 --> 00:18:00,412
It turned out to be angina or something.
259
00:18:00,579 --> 00:18:02,748
But of course,
everybody else was panicked.
260
00:18:02,915 --> 00:18:05,751
What if I died? People don't even know
what the movie is.
261
00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:12,132
Yeah, it was in a million little pieces.
262
00:18:13,008 --> 00:18:14,843
Nobody knew what I was really doing.
263
00:18:15,052 --> 00:18:16,804
I was the fourth editor hired.
264
00:18:17,471 --> 00:18:20,933
So a lot of work had already been done
in the editing process
265
00:18:21,016 --> 00:18:26,105
by the time I arrived on the scene, and I
was deeply impressed with the whole thing.
266
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,067
But almost every cut
had to be altered somehow.
267
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:32,444
I got up my nerve and I said,
"Listen, George,"
268
00:18:32,528 --> 00:18:34,530
"there's something I
really need to tell you."
269
00:18:34,613 --> 00:18:37,116
"I've never worked on anything
this big before."
270
00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:39,368
He said, "Don't worry about it.
Nobody has."
271
00:18:41,453 --> 00:18:43,747
I have a very bad feeling
about this.
272
00:18:43,831 --> 00:18:46,208
- Turn the ship around.
- Yeah, I think you're right.
273
00:18:46,291 --> 00:18:48,377
Full reverse.
Chewie, lock in the auxiliary power.
274
00:18:48,502 --> 00:18:51,171
I was very frustrated
editing without effects.
275
00:18:51,380 --> 00:18:52,798
What did I get myself into?
276
00:18:52,881 --> 00:18:54,508
How am I ever going to get this done?
277
00:18:54,591 --> 00:18:58,137
George, at a certain point,
decided that he wanted to get the opinion
278
00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:02,599
of some of his colleagues,
Brian De Palma and Martin Scorsese,
279
00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:04,685
and Steven Spielberg.
280
00:19:05,644 --> 00:19:08,188
I saw Star Wars for the first time
in rough cut.
281
00:19:09,148 --> 00:19:12,818
Well, there we are, Mos Eisley Spaceport.
282
00:19:14,069 --> 00:19:18,532
You will never find a more wretched hive
of scum and villainy.
283
00:19:19,158 --> 00:19:24,913
The film was, uh...
To say it was not finished is a kindness.
284
00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:28,834
Get back to the ship!
285
00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:30,502
Where are you going? Come back!
286
00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:32,462
He didn't have the effects yet.
287
00:19:32,838 --> 00:19:34,423
Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi.
288
00:19:34,923 --> 00:19:35,924
You're my only hope.
289
00:19:36,633 --> 00:19:39,303
There was a great deal
of debate about context
290
00:19:39,511 --> 00:19:42,264
because there are only a couple
effects shots in there.
291
00:19:42,472 --> 00:19:43,473
Where are we?
292
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,725
Who are we?
293
00:19:44,808 --> 00:19:45,893
Who are they?
294
00:19:46,476 --> 00:19:47,728
Do we need they?
295
00:19:48,729 --> 00:19:52,649
What is this menagerie of imagination,
296
00:19:52,733 --> 00:19:56,904
George, that you've invited us
to see and tear apart?
297
00:19:56,987 --> 00:19:59,948
Even I, who worked on the film,
298
00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:01,742
could barely follow the story.
299
00:20:01,825 --> 00:20:04,995
It was much rougher
than rough cuts usually are.
300
00:20:06,788 --> 00:20:09,082
Half the film
was just literally like
301
00:20:09,166 --> 00:20:13,337
watching a documentary from World War II
because that's all George had.
302
00:20:13,420 --> 00:20:15,005
This is it!
303
00:20:15,088 --> 00:20:16,882
We should be able to see it by now.
304
00:20:18,592 --> 00:20:20,552
Keep your eyes open for those fighters.
305
00:20:22,304 --> 00:20:24,681
Me and Alan Ladd, Jr., the head of Fox,
306
00:20:24,806 --> 00:20:27,726
we were probably the only people
in that room that loved the movie
307
00:20:27,809 --> 00:20:29,436
in the condition it was in.
308
00:20:29,603 --> 00:20:33,774
But when R2 and C-3PO escape
309
00:20:34,483 --> 00:20:38,445
and their vehicle purges,
and you see it leaving
310
00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:41,823
the docking platform
and it goes into space,
311
00:20:42,532 --> 00:20:47,287
that shot alone should have told all of us
what that movie was going to be
312
00:20:47,371 --> 00:20:51,583
with ILM's help. But it wasn't
there yet in the rough cut.
313
00:20:52,292 --> 00:20:53,877
When I said there were no other
314
00:20:53,961 --> 00:20:56,255
special effects houses,
visual effects houses,
315
00:20:56,338 --> 00:20:59,508
there were not in the world,
the whole world, there weren't any.
316
00:21:00,217 --> 00:21:01,551
So I didn't have a choice.
317
00:21:02,552 --> 00:21:05,055
I was on the bucking bronco
and I had to go.
318
00:21:06,556 --> 00:21:10,310
It really became a thing
where we simply got on with it.
319
00:21:11,812 --> 00:21:13,188
For him,
320
00:21:13,313 --> 00:21:17,067
it was more a matter of resignation
than a decision
321
00:21:17,234 --> 00:21:19,569
that the process was going to work.
322
00:21:19,778 --> 00:21:23,490
Every time we shot a scene
using motion control,
323
00:21:23,615 --> 00:21:27,411
with a pan and the tilt and a boom
and the track and all those things.
324
00:21:27,828 --> 00:21:31,039
So it was so arduous to do a shot.
325
00:21:32,332 --> 00:21:37,796
And we realized that we had so many
thousand elements that we had to shoot.
326
00:21:37,879 --> 00:21:40,966
There wasn't enough hours in a day
for me to shoot everything.
327
00:21:41,758 --> 00:21:43,802
And so Ken is shooting the cannons.
328
00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:47,180
Dennis is shooting X-wing shots.
329
00:21:47,764 --> 00:21:50,225
And then I'd ram the camera
into the model,
330
00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:52,936
and they'd have to come out
and fix it, you know?
331
00:21:53,061 --> 00:21:55,897
I mean, this was not
a perfect world, right?
332
00:21:56,481 --> 00:21:58,692
Dealing with all these pieces of film.
333
00:21:59,943 --> 00:22:02,904
It was like photo masochism.
334
00:22:06,825 --> 00:22:08,702
I was actually really frankly worried
335
00:22:08,785 --> 00:22:11,830
about how we were going
to keep track of all this.
336
00:22:12,873 --> 00:22:14,458
With a sophisticated prototype,
337
00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:18,920
there's always problems,
but for George, it was impenetrable.
338
00:22:20,047 --> 00:22:22,007
We had all this
very exotic equipment.
339
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:24,760
We were doing things
that nobody'd ever done before.
340
00:22:25,135 --> 00:22:28,638
John Dykstra was crucial
in designing and making it work.
341
00:22:29,598 --> 00:22:32,267
But we were running out of time,
running out of money.
342
00:22:32,351 --> 00:22:34,227
I said, "I don't care
if you put it on a stick"
343
00:22:34,311 --> 00:22:37,105
"and just shoot it going through the dark.
Put in a few stars."
344
00:22:37,189 --> 00:22:38,899
"We got to get this thing done."
345
00:22:38,982 --> 00:22:41,860
Several people were sent in
to try and make us
346
00:22:41,943 --> 00:22:43,904
more efficient and more structured.
347
00:22:45,489 --> 00:22:46,490
George Mather.
348
00:22:46,573 --> 00:22:49,993
He'd made a real effort
to bring some organization.
349
00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:54,998
He did what he could, and we grudgingly
agreed to some of it.
350
00:22:55,165 --> 00:22:59,294
But I think Rose really was the one
that put it all together.
351
00:23:01,505 --> 00:23:03,799
When I arrived for my interview,
352
00:23:04,299 --> 00:23:06,134
it was a pretty...
353
00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:10,097
I don't want to use the word
looking place.
354
00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:12,224
They did not have nice furniture.
355
00:23:12,557 --> 00:23:14,184
It just looked like a dump.
356
00:23:14,518 --> 00:23:17,020
Let's face it.
There was a guy sitting next to me,
357
00:23:17,104 --> 00:23:20,190
like, a runner, with his feet up,
and I was asking the receptionist,
358
00:23:20,273 --> 00:23:22,317
"How's it working here?
Is George Lucas nice?"
359
00:23:22,401 --> 00:23:24,903
"Tell me about this film.
It's a sci-fi film,"
360
00:23:24,986 --> 00:23:27,030
and she seemed really uptight.
361
00:23:27,322 --> 00:23:30,951
And then Dykstra opens the door and says,
"Come on in for the interview."
362
00:23:32,077 --> 00:23:34,913
And this young man gets up
and walks in with me.
363
00:23:35,747 --> 00:23:38,208
Well, of course,
that young man was George Lucas.
364
00:23:38,291 --> 00:23:40,794
He turned to me and asked two questions.
365
00:23:41,044 --> 00:23:42,212
Do you take shorthand?
366
00:23:42,629 --> 00:23:43,922
And can you start Monday?
367
00:23:44,589 --> 00:23:47,884
I had seen American Graffiti,
so I was already sold.
368
00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:51,138
Okay. Whatever this guy
wants to do, I'm on board.
369
00:23:51,847 --> 00:23:57,269
And George had just returned from England,
so mostly he was up north editing.
370
00:23:57,727 --> 00:23:59,396
He would show up two days a week,
371
00:23:59,479 --> 00:24:02,232
and my job was to follow him around
and make notes.
372
00:24:02,441 --> 00:24:04,776
Someone had to accompany him everywhere
373
00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:08,905
and keep track of everything
he said to every department.
374
00:24:09,823 --> 00:24:12,534
But most of the time
I was following Dykstra around.
375
00:24:14,286 --> 00:24:17,706
He's just such an engaging,
charismatic person.
376
00:24:18,582 --> 00:24:20,667
He'd be so loose. He'd be so funny.
377
00:24:21,501 --> 00:24:25,005
Then when George got there,
it was all business,
378
00:24:25,464 --> 00:24:27,924
and I sensed a coolness between them.
379
00:24:30,218 --> 00:24:32,721
There was nobody organizing it.
380
00:24:32,846 --> 00:24:35,765
I don't know how they managed
to decide what to shoot when.
381
00:24:36,975 --> 00:24:39,144
We needed to get an adult in the room
382
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:42,147
to say, "Look,
this is what needs to happen."
383
00:24:43,356 --> 00:24:47,736
George Mather really brought order
that gave George Lucas
384
00:24:47,819 --> 00:24:49,613
tremendous confidence.
385
00:24:49,738 --> 00:24:53,533
Mather and I listed every single element
that needed to be done.
386
00:24:53,617 --> 00:24:54,910
It got on the calendar,
387
00:24:55,243 --> 00:24:57,621
and it just started flowing very smoothly.
388
00:24:58,705 --> 00:25:01,583
We had a big book of the storyboards,
389
00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:04,794
and every day I would type up
the notes from dailies
390
00:25:04,878 --> 00:25:06,755
and he would cut them out
in little strips,
391
00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:09,257
and paste them into this book.
392
00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:16,556
Once the system was complete,
I brought George down a few times
393
00:25:16,890 --> 00:25:21,603
to step him through the process, and I
said, "Okay, let's start with this shot."
394
00:25:22,187 --> 00:25:24,397
"There's two or three elements
in the shot."
395
00:25:27,192 --> 00:25:29,110
Okay, I would shoot the first element,
396
00:25:29,194 --> 00:25:31,404
have that developed in about 10 minutes,
397
00:25:31,571 --> 00:25:32,822
put it on the Moviola,
398
00:25:32,906 --> 00:25:35,909
and I'd say, "You like this move, George,
or you want to modify it?"
399
00:25:35,992 --> 00:25:38,203
And he says, "You know,
maybe we can have it"
400
00:25:38,286 --> 00:25:40,539
"do a little bit more of this
or something,"
401
00:25:40,622 --> 00:25:41,915
and I would shoot another one.
402
00:25:41,998 --> 00:25:43,625
He says, "Yeah, I like that now."
403
00:25:44,167 --> 00:25:48,296
It's like, "Okay, let's do the next model,
and then put the two together."
404
00:25:48,838 --> 00:25:51,925
George now could see
the two elements that I just shot.
405
00:25:53,051 --> 00:25:55,011
So I did that a few times for him.
406
00:25:55,095 --> 00:25:57,222
We schooled him, in a sense.
407
00:25:59,391 --> 00:26:02,894
He saw the work
we were doing could be successful
408
00:26:03,019 --> 00:26:07,232
because the product was
significantly more interesting,
409
00:26:07,691 --> 00:26:09,818
and more evocative than it would have been
410
00:26:09,901 --> 00:26:13,780
if we'd settled for the cheap
and cheerful approach.
411
00:26:13,905 --> 00:26:16,866
But there were a lot of
the shots that could have been done
412
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:19,619
with older processes, old techniques.
413
00:26:20,078 --> 00:26:23,665
But what John had come up with
was an elegance.
414
00:26:24,332 --> 00:26:26,084
Once you bought into that thing,
415
00:26:26,167 --> 00:26:29,129
you had a system that could do
any type of shot you wanted.
416
00:26:30,714 --> 00:26:32,465
For all of us, it was an education,
417
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:36,219
both in managing to pull
the technology together
418
00:26:36,303 --> 00:26:38,638
as well as to understand George's vision.
419
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:44,227
For each shot, storyboards would
give us the gist of the idea,
420
00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:50,400
and then I would interpret the storyboard
to figure out what to shoot first.
421
00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:56,489
Something that really made me quake
in my shoes was the opening shot.
422
00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:03,663
Because if the opening shot didn't
grab the audience and convince them
423
00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:06,416
that they gotta watch this movie,
we were in trouble.
424
00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:13,256
The best effect is one that has
subliminal cues like scale
425
00:27:13,381 --> 00:27:17,427
and focus to make this stuff
indistinguishable from reality.
426
00:27:17,802 --> 00:27:20,055
And George would come down
and he would say,
427
00:27:20,138 --> 00:27:22,682
"I want the Star Destroyer
to look enormous.
428
00:27:23,391 --> 00:27:26,936
"We can build this model
on the wall and have ladders"
429
00:27:27,062 --> 00:27:28,980
"and, you know,
other things that give scale,"
430
00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:33,360
and I would say, "George,
we already have a Star Destroyer"
431
00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:34,986
"that's this long."
432
00:27:36,112 --> 00:27:37,280
"I want to do a test.
433
00:27:37,822 --> 00:27:41,117
"Put your best guys on
detailing the bottom of this thing
434
00:27:41,201 --> 00:27:42,911
"and really making it tricked out,
435
00:27:43,703 --> 00:27:45,997
"and then make me a Rebel blockade runner"
436
00:27:46,081 --> 00:27:50,251
"that's about the size of a cigarette,
and I'll put that on a wire"
437
00:27:50,335 --> 00:27:52,295
"sticking out of the front of the ship,"
438
00:27:52,962 --> 00:27:56,216
"and we can try to create a bigger scale."
439
00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:02,013
It was very important to be able to get
the camera very close to the models,
440
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:05,016
and the camera is going to be
hanging from the boom.
441
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:07,769
So I flip a Star Destroyer
and got it level,
442
00:28:07,852 --> 00:28:11,898
so the lens was basically
1/32 of an inch off the model
443
00:28:11,981 --> 00:28:14,526
and it was actually scraping it
at a couple points.
444
00:28:15,318 --> 00:28:17,487
Basically, I shot it upside down.
445
00:28:23,493 --> 00:28:26,496
And the next day at dailies,
everybody's aghast.
446
00:28:27,872 --> 00:28:28,915
It's like...
447
00:28:38,383 --> 00:28:41,136
The feeling that you got
in that opening shot
448
00:28:41,219 --> 00:28:43,346
when the Star Destroyer comes overhead
449
00:28:46,015 --> 00:28:49,477
was precisely what George wanted.
450
00:28:52,605 --> 00:28:55,483
And here's one of the keys
that makes it work.
451
00:28:55,817 --> 00:28:59,863
The entire ship is in focus,
from the closest thing to the camera
452
00:28:59,946 --> 00:29:01,823
to the furthest thing from the camera.
453
00:29:01,906 --> 00:29:05,452
It's a really critical component
to establishing scale.
454
00:29:08,788 --> 00:29:12,584
And the model had
little doors and windows.
455
00:29:12,667 --> 00:29:17,130
Human scale things
that tell you how big it is, right?
456
00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:22,469
So it's those kind of subliminal clues
and an understanding of how to use them
457
00:29:22,635 --> 00:29:27,307
that makes it artistry,
as opposed to simple mechanics.
458
00:29:37,025 --> 00:29:38,359
I mean, it's a mystery.
459
00:29:38,443 --> 00:29:39,819
It's like magic, really.
460
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,365
We're creating magic
through this very lugubrious process.
461
00:29:52,874 --> 00:29:55,585
Such a creative group spirit emerged.
462
00:29:55,877 --> 00:30:00,924
Collaborative problem solving,
on every crew in every department.
463
00:30:01,007 --> 00:30:04,427
We knew we had to help each other.
We had to be supportive of each other
464
00:30:04,511 --> 00:30:06,095
in order to get the work done.
465
00:30:07,055 --> 00:30:09,599
It's about making the movie,
466
00:30:09,682 --> 00:30:14,479
telling the story,
and don't let your ego get in the way.
467
00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:19,025
A lot of problems got solved
at the coffee machine.
468
00:30:19,108 --> 00:30:21,903
People would walk up, they got
some problem and they talk to you,
469
00:30:21,986 --> 00:30:23,112
"Can you help me with it?"
470
00:30:23,196 --> 00:30:24,405
We were a family.
471
00:30:25,949 --> 00:30:29,160
I just really liked
that George would
472
00:30:29,244 --> 00:30:31,579
stay late and help me on mundane tasks.
473
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:34,666
Would be 9:00 at night,
and we'd be stamping storyboards.
474
00:30:37,961 --> 00:30:40,088
Some of the times
that he was happiest
475
00:30:40,171 --> 00:30:43,883
is when he would go into the model shop
and glue parts on a spaceship.
476
00:30:44,759 --> 00:30:46,135
He really loved to do that.
477
00:30:47,512 --> 00:30:51,182
We were behind, so it just took
a long time to do that many shots.
478
00:30:51,266 --> 00:30:53,268
He was great at compromising, you know.
479
00:30:53,351 --> 00:30:55,019
"We can reuse this shot over here."
480
00:30:55,103 --> 00:30:56,896
"We can flip this shot backwards"
481
00:30:56,980 --> 00:30:59,482
"and it'll look like it's
going the other direction."
482
00:30:59,566 --> 00:31:01,192
We started making quantum leaps.
483
00:31:01,693 --> 00:31:02,777
Things accelerated.
484
00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:09,826
I mean, there were some rough spots.
485
00:31:10,660 --> 00:31:13,288
To work in visual effects,
you have to be crazy.
486
00:31:13,705 --> 00:31:15,582
You have to be a little bit nuts.
487
00:31:30,805 --> 00:31:33,725
But since we didn't know
what it was going to become,
488
00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:37,729
there was nothing sacred and just build it
and get it in front of the camera.
489
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,571
It was fun all the time.
490
00:31:47,739 --> 00:31:49,616
When it was grueling, it was fun.
491
00:31:51,242 --> 00:31:53,411
The star field was
hollow on the inside.
492
00:31:53,494 --> 00:31:55,455
You could get in there
and sleep comfortably.
493
00:31:55,538 --> 00:31:58,958
"One day somebody said," Hey,
don't leave the pillow against the light.
494
00:31:59,042 --> 00:32:00,209
"These things get hot."
495
00:32:00,293 --> 00:32:01,961
It was madness. It was madness.
496
00:32:03,129 --> 00:32:07,425
We had a lot of parties, and I'd mix
punches and throw dry ice in it,
497
00:32:07,508 --> 00:32:10,720
and they'd gurgle and bubble
till I learned that that was poison,
498
00:32:10,845 --> 00:32:12,972
that you really can't put dry ice in.
499
00:32:13,056 --> 00:32:14,307
Oops!
500
00:32:15,892 --> 00:32:18,645
As George used to say,
"Give them enough pizza and beer,"
501
00:32:18,728 --> 00:32:19,771
"they'll do anything."
502
00:32:22,315 --> 00:32:25,276
It was like a fraternity house.
503
00:32:26,778 --> 00:32:28,947
The studio called us
the Country Club.
504
00:32:30,531 --> 00:32:33,451
Yes, we were in the hot tub,
and yes, we waterslided,
505
00:32:33,534 --> 00:32:35,036
and yes, we were immature.
506
00:32:37,038 --> 00:32:40,833
But nobody worked harder,
nobody stayed later.
507
00:32:42,961 --> 00:32:44,754
We were breaking new ground.
508
00:32:51,469 --> 00:32:55,598
It really was a lot of fun
until it got toward the end.
509
00:32:55,682 --> 00:32:57,517
You know, the crunch was on.
510
00:33:00,269 --> 00:33:03,648
We were beating ourselves up
to get the movie done in time.
511
00:33:05,066 --> 00:33:07,568
The premiere is coming up,
people are freaking out.
512
00:33:07,694 --> 00:33:09,362
Sound department wants your work now,
513
00:33:09,445 --> 00:33:12,156
because they have to put
their sound in, oh, my God.
514
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,660
Joe was redesigning the storyboards
and giving us different shots.
515
00:33:16,661 --> 00:33:19,414
We were shooting like crazy
and falling over each other.
516
00:33:20,123 --> 00:33:21,249
Ken!
517
00:33:21,332 --> 00:33:23,251
Just trying to get the work done.
518
00:33:24,293 --> 00:33:27,797
Getting the models and lighting
and shooting those as fast as we could.
519
00:33:30,925 --> 00:33:34,345
It was a mission of faith.
520
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,683
Because nobody knew whether
we were going to make it or not.
521
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,102
Everybody was very hopeful.
522
00:33:42,562 --> 00:33:44,897
But I was under
an enormous amount of pressure.
523
00:33:45,148 --> 00:33:47,608
The crew was under
an enormous amount of pressure.
524
00:33:48,484 --> 00:33:50,486
When we were walking through the stages,
525
00:33:50,570 --> 00:33:52,905
he was kind of frustrated,
like things were not
526
00:33:52,989 --> 00:33:54,907
coming together the way he would like.
527
00:33:55,450 --> 00:33:57,869
He was disappointed in some of the shots.
528
00:33:58,911 --> 00:34:01,998
Not everybody's work was given approval.
529
00:34:02,957 --> 00:34:04,917
You know, he was,
530
00:34:05,001 --> 00:34:10,006
I wouldn't say hypercritical, but...
It's his movie.
531
00:34:10,506 --> 00:34:12,675
It's... He's going to take the blame.
532
00:34:13,217 --> 00:34:14,719
I'm a perfectionist.
533
00:34:16,054 --> 00:34:19,932
And if it's not right,
I get really upset inside.
534
00:34:20,266 --> 00:34:22,268
Sometimes outside, but mostly inside.
535
00:34:22,351 --> 00:34:23,895
- Okay.
- Okay.
536
00:34:25,438 --> 00:34:28,357
You know, my impression of George
was that
537
00:34:28,441 --> 00:34:32,278
he was the combination
of extremely imaginative
538
00:34:32,361 --> 00:34:34,405
and extremely practical.
539
00:34:34,906 --> 00:34:38,242
And usually you find people who are
one or the other, but not both.
540
00:34:38,743 --> 00:34:40,423
I've learned to live with the fact
541
00:34:40,495 --> 00:34:42,747
that everything can't be
the way you want it to be.
542
00:34:42,830 --> 00:34:45,666
You have to sort of do the best you can
and move forward.
543
00:34:46,667 --> 00:34:49,378
George had always been unhappy
with the creatures
544
00:34:49,462 --> 00:34:52,381
that they had given him
for the cant in a sequence.
545
00:34:53,382 --> 00:34:56,010
So, reshoots were planned.
546
00:34:57,220 --> 00:35:00,932
We had shot
the cant in a scene in England
547
00:35:01,724 --> 00:35:03,726
and I wanted it to be crowded with aliens.
548
00:35:03,976 --> 00:35:05,978
They gave me some, but it wasn't enough.
549
00:35:06,229 --> 00:35:09,649
I think it was a budgetary problem.
There just wasn't that much money,
550
00:35:09,732 --> 00:35:12,693
so it looked to me like
what they had done in England
551
00:35:12,777 --> 00:35:14,403
was go to a costume department,
552
00:35:14,487 --> 00:35:17,406
got a bunch of Beatrix Potter-type things.
553
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:21,702
We shot everything we could,
but then I said,
554
00:35:21,786 --> 00:35:24,622
"Well, I'll just pick them up
when I get home."
555
00:35:25,498 --> 00:35:27,500
George hired me and Jon Berg
556
00:35:27,583 --> 00:35:30,378
and a couple of out-of-work
stop-motion animators,
557
00:35:30,461 --> 00:35:31,462
and his direction was,
558
00:35:31,546 --> 00:35:34,632
"Make me as many space aliens
as you can in six weeks."
559
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,016
They drew drawings
and I picked another 12 monsters.
560
00:35:45,017 --> 00:35:46,519
Ron Cobb did some designs,
561
00:35:46,602 --> 00:35:49,647
and we would sculpt
and fabricate his designs.
562
00:35:54,068 --> 00:35:57,572
And then went over to a little stage
on La Brea Avenue.
563
00:35:59,907 --> 00:36:02,410
And George put us in our own masks.
564
00:36:04,745 --> 00:36:11,460
And costume department would dress us up
and that's kind of how that was done.
565
00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:19,719
Phil Tippett and Jon Berg,
I liked them.
566
00:36:20,386 --> 00:36:21,512
They were a good team.
567
00:36:21,888 --> 00:36:23,055
We became friends.
568
00:36:24,307 --> 00:36:27,727
George would come in once a week
to check out our progress,
569
00:36:28,060 --> 00:36:31,939
and one time he was looking around
and he saw on the shelf
570
00:36:32,607 --> 00:36:36,068
a stop-motion character that I had made
when I was like, 20.
571
00:36:36,861 --> 00:36:41,574
He said, "Oh, so you guys do
stop-motion animation, huh?"
572
00:36:44,243 --> 00:36:47,288
He showed us the chess set,
and the assembly
573
00:36:47,371 --> 00:36:50,416
that he had without any characters in it.
574
00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:53,252
330. Take two.
575
00:36:53,419 --> 00:36:56,380
George was initially
going to have the chess set
576
00:36:57,173 --> 00:37:02,720
just be people in masks
shot against blue screen...
577
00:37:05,097 --> 00:37:06,974
But Future World had just come out,
578
00:37:09,185 --> 00:37:13,189
and there was a scene there
with actors on a chessboard.
579
00:37:13,272 --> 00:37:14,941
My knight to your pawn.
580
00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:19,362
George felt kind of scooped in a way.
581
00:37:19,445 --> 00:37:22,114
You know, it was like
his thing would not be original.
582
00:37:22,198 --> 00:37:26,327
And so if he did it stop motion,
it would have its own thing.
583
00:37:27,036 --> 00:37:29,121
So he said to me and Jon Berg,
584
00:37:29,205 --> 00:37:34,001
"Can you make 10 stop-motion aliens
in two weeks?"
585
00:37:34,085 --> 00:37:35,711
I said, "That's why we're here."
586
00:37:36,087 --> 00:37:39,215
The one advantage we have at ILM
is we got guys,
587
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,427
you know, off the street,
which meant they could do anything.
588
00:37:43,886 --> 00:37:47,223
Right at the end of the schedule,
right at the end of the schedule.
589
00:37:47,431 --> 00:37:52,561
And so when Jon Berg and I went in
to make a deal with George for it,
590
00:37:52,645 --> 00:37:56,565
Dykstra had this big round table,
and George sat at one end
591
00:37:56,649 --> 00:38:00,278
and Dykstra had a replica old Western .44.
592
00:38:00,528 --> 00:38:03,364
And while we were negotiating
talking about our rates,
593
00:38:03,447 --> 00:38:07,451
he would just like, spin the chamber.
594
00:38:07,535 --> 00:38:09,120
He had no idea that he was doing it,
595
00:38:09,203 --> 00:38:12,832
but we were sitting there
going like, "Uh, is that too much?"
596
00:38:14,375 --> 00:38:15,543
"We'll do it for free."
597
00:38:17,712 --> 00:38:21,966
We had a cardboard box
with all these little characters in it.
598
00:38:22,425 --> 00:38:25,636
Took them to the set
and asked George what he wanted,
599
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:27,054
and he goes like, "I don't know."
600
00:38:27,138 --> 00:38:30,641
"How about this little yellow guy jumps
out and the green guy picks him up"
601
00:38:30,725 --> 00:38:33,311
"and throws him down,
and everybody else is watching."
602
00:38:33,436 --> 00:38:36,355
And we're like, "Okay. You got it."
603
00:38:39,358 --> 00:38:42,320
We would shoot in the evenings,
I think over three nights.
604
00:38:45,656 --> 00:38:47,992
And it's just kids
playing with toys, you know.
605
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:54,206
That was the only
stop-motion work we had.
606
00:38:54,874 --> 00:38:56,834
We were all happy with the results.
607
00:38:58,669 --> 00:39:00,171
Now be careful, R2.
608
00:39:07,136 --> 00:39:09,930
He made a fair move.
Screaming about it can't help you.
609
00:39:10,097 --> 00:39:12,558
Let him have it.
It's not wise to upset a Wookiee.
610
00:39:15,269 --> 00:39:19,690
George was very generous
with giving creative freedom to people,
611
00:39:19,774 --> 00:39:22,360
and he would be very patient.
If you had a question,
612
00:39:22,443 --> 00:39:25,279
it didn't make sense to you,
he would explain, you know,
613
00:39:25,363 --> 00:39:27,823
why this is what I want to do.
614
00:39:29,033 --> 00:39:32,620
When he came by,
I got as much of his time as I could.
615
00:39:34,622 --> 00:39:36,916
I remember him sitting
at the drawing table
616
00:39:36,999 --> 00:39:39,502
and drawing the sequence
at the end of the film,
617
00:39:39,919 --> 00:39:41,504
the attack on the Death Star.
618
00:39:43,214 --> 00:39:44,757
George is not an artist.
619
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,676
He can put lines on paper,
but he's not an artist.
620
00:39:48,010 --> 00:39:52,640
And I was really amazed
at his ability to convey the idea
621
00:39:53,391 --> 00:39:57,561
in very crude visuals of what this attack
was gonna look like.
622
00:39:57,645 --> 00:40:00,314
The end battle was of particular
importance to George
623
00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:03,818
because the studio was
threatening to eliminate it.
624
00:40:04,443 --> 00:40:07,071
They had concerns about cost overruns,
625
00:40:07,154 --> 00:40:09,657
and they thought,
"Hey, they get to the Death Star,
626
00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:12,618
"they rescue the princess.
That's it. Story's over."
627
00:40:12,701 --> 00:40:15,329
But George was determined
to have this end battle.
628
00:40:17,540 --> 00:40:18,999
Movies are kinetic.
629
00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:20,084
It's about movement.
630
00:40:20,584 --> 00:40:23,587
Forget the actors. Forget the story.
It's all about movement.
631
00:40:23,671 --> 00:40:27,633
The chase. The chases were
the beginning form of cinema.
632
00:40:29,343 --> 00:40:32,346
Chase, like anything else in a movie,
it has to be built.
633
00:40:33,305 --> 00:40:35,641
You got a beginning, a middle and an end,
634
00:40:35,724 --> 00:40:37,726
and you have several incidents in there.
635
00:40:38,644 --> 00:40:41,939
At the end of the film,
the idea was to create
636
00:40:42,022 --> 00:40:45,526
a realistic-looking space dogfight.
637
00:40:45,985 --> 00:40:49,738
They were attacking
an invulnerable fortress,
638
00:40:49,822 --> 00:40:53,200
the Death Star,
and Luke's prowess as a pilot
639
00:40:53,367 --> 00:40:56,787
allows them to succeed
in destroying this behemoth.
640
00:40:58,038 --> 00:41:01,167
The reason the Death Star
had trenches in it
641
00:41:01,667 --> 00:41:05,546
is because it was the only way
we could achieve a sense of speed.
642
00:41:09,550 --> 00:41:16,474
We had ridden motorcycles down
gullies out in the desert and noticed
643
00:41:16,557 --> 00:41:19,727
that when you were in the gullies,
you're traveling by things.
644
00:41:20,060 --> 00:41:21,437
They seemed really fast.
645
00:41:23,314 --> 00:41:24,899
George wanted a city look,
646
00:41:24,982 --> 00:41:29,320
like flying down the center of Manhattan
high speed in some kind of a ship.
647
00:41:29,403 --> 00:41:31,030
But the scale would be much larger.
648
00:41:31,113 --> 00:41:34,158
Something that's supposed to look
like you've traveled 40 miles
649
00:41:34,241 --> 00:41:36,118
is going to have to be a mile a foot.
650
00:41:36,744 --> 00:41:37,870
That's no mean feat.
651
00:41:39,121 --> 00:41:42,458
That meant an incredible amount
of detail on each surface piece.
652
00:41:46,504 --> 00:41:48,047
The Death Star surface,
653
00:41:48,130 --> 00:41:51,342
it was the very first project
I was hired to do for two months.
654
00:41:51,967 --> 00:41:54,887
And it didn't take me very long to realize
655
00:41:54,970 --> 00:41:57,806
why all the other model makers
didn't want to do it.
656
00:41:58,057 --> 00:41:59,183
They got burnt out.
657
00:41:59,892 --> 00:42:03,395
You basically spent the day
on your knees with big foam pads
658
00:42:03,604 --> 00:42:07,816
and crawled around on the surface
that was about 15 feet by 40 feet.
659
00:42:08,526 --> 00:42:13,864
We built six molds
for this gigantic Death Star surface.
660
00:42:14,740 --> 00:42:17,076
We had to be able
to cut them up and move them,
661
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:18,786
put them in different positions.
662
00:42:18,869 --> 00:42:21,747
So you wouldn't recognize
that it was a lot of repetition.
663
00:42:23,624 --> 00:42:26,252
It's pretty astronomical,
the number of combinations
664
00:42:26,335 --> 00:42:28,212
that we had available to us.
665
00:42:29,463 --> 00:42:31,465
At the end of the model,
666
00:42:31,549 --> 00:42:33,968
we had to show that
it goes on and on and on.
667
00:42:34,051 --> 00:42:37,346
So we photographed a section
of the Death Star trench
668
00:42:37,429 --> 00:42:39,265
and glued it to a piece of Masonite.
669
00:42:40,432 --> 00:42:41,892
I painted the detail on it.
670
00:42:50,651 --> 00:42:52,611
Just to make it seem more alive,
671
00:42:52,695 --> 00:42:54,446
thousands of these little windows
672
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:58,158
had to be put everywhere
with retro reflective tape
673
00:42:58,284 --> 00:43:00,953
made out of glass beads
that reflect back the light.
674
00:43:01,870 --> 00:43:03,831
But there were tens of thousands.
675
00:43:04,331 --> 00:43:06,542
That was my job to do that,
676
00:43:06,667 --> 00:43:08,377
you know?
677
00:43:08,460 --> 00:43:12,798
There was a moment when Marcia Lucas,
George Lucas's wife at the time,
678
00:43:13,424 --> 00:43:15,593
came down and looked at the Death Star.
679
00:43:15,926 --> 00:43:18,387
She got the camera,
looked at it, we lit it up,
680
00:43:19,179 --> 00:43:23,475
and she said, "Hmm, the windows
have to be a smaller scale."
681
00:43:25,644 --> 00:43:30,983
It's like, oh, my God,
they had to be half as big.
682
00:43:36,113 --> 00:43:37,948
The approach will not be easy.
683
00:43:38,032 --> 00:43:40,909
You're required to maneuver
straight down this trench,
684
00:43:40,993 --> 00:43:43,162
and skim the surface to this point.
685
00:43:44,330 --> 00:43:47,124
The target area is only two meters wide.
686
00:43:47,207 --> 00:43:50,794
It's a small thermal exhaust port
right below the main port.
687
00:43:52,713 --> 00:43:55,674
When it came time to
shoot the trench,
688
00:43:55,758 --> 00:43:58,719
George is talking us through
and there he goes.
689
00:43:59,428 --> 00:44:01,388
It looks like he's not seeing anything
690
00:44:01,805 --> 00:44:06,101
'cause he's so in his head,
but you can see in his eyes
691
00:44:06,185 --> 00:44:08,187
what he already sees
as the finished product.
692
00:44:08,354 --> 00:44:09,480
We're right in there.
693
00:44:09,563 --> 00:44:12,566
We're loving this story
and he's got us all excited about it.
694
00:44:13,067 --> 00:44:15,861
"That's the scene.
Go do it, guys," and off we go.
695
00:44:17,529 --> 00:44:19,239
Look at the size of that thing.
696
00:44:42,471 --> 00:44:43,514
This is it.
697
00:44:56,735 --> 00:44:58,153
It's away!
698
00:44:59,571 --> 00:45:02,783
We figured out that we had to be
traveling 20 miles an hour
699
00:45:02,866 --> 00:45:05,160
as we went by the Death Star model.
700
00:45:06,453 --> 00:45:11,041
We put it flat in the parking lot,
and the only way we could get the camera
701
00:45:11,125 --> 00:45:14,670
to a high enough speed
would be with a motorized vehicle.
702
00:45:15,921 --> 00:45:19,091
Guerilla film making,
put the camera in the back of the truck.
703
00:45:19,675 --> 00:45:20,926
Richard climbed up there,
704
00:45:21,009 --> 00:45:23,262
we drove by the model
and set off the charges.
705
00:45:32,855 --> 00:45:34,648
- It's a hit!
- Negative.
706
00:45:34,773 --> 00:45:35,983
It didn't go in.
707
00:45:36,108 --> 00:45:37,901
Just impacted on the surface.
708
00:45:38,610 --> 00:45:39,820
There weren't any rules.
709
00:45:40,154 --> 00:45:43,657
It was like whatever worked,
we'll make it somehow function
710
00:45:43,741 --> 00:45:45,617
and we'll come out with this great thing.
711
00:45:45,701 --> 00:45:48,078
R2, that stabilizer's broken loose again.
712
00:45:48,162 --> 00:45:50,164
See if you can't lock it down.
713
00:45:51,957 --> 00:45:54,710
An impossible schedule,
an impossible budget,
714
00:45:54,793 --> 00:45:57,421
trying to do things
that have never been done before.
715
00:45:59,715 --> 00:46:01,258
We were the Rebel Alliance.
716
00:46:04,011 --> 00:46:05,095
Look out!
717
00:46:11,351 --> 00:46:14,438
You're all clear, kid.
Now, let's blow this thing and go home.
718
00:46:34,166 --> 00:46:35,876
Everybody came through in the end.
719
00:46:38,212 --> 00:46:39,588
- Hey!
- Hey!
720
00:46:39,671 --> 00:46:40,672
I knew you'd come back.
721
00:46:40,756 --> 00:46:42,633
Finished the movie. Yay!
722
00:46:42,841 --> 00:46:44,968
I couldn't believe it, really.
723
00:46:46,678 --> 00:46:49,681
And on the last night,
ILM was having its wrap party.
724
00:46:50,349 --> 00:46:53,185
So everybody around us was whooping it up.
725
00:46:54,228 --> 00:46:56,605
And a bunch of the guys
who were smarter than me
726
00:46:56,688 --> 00:46:58,524
took out 20th Century stock.
727
00:46:58,607 --> 00:47:00,609
We didn't know what we were working on.
728
00:47:00,734 --> 00:47:05,614
I mean, it was really just a job,
five or six days a week.
729
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,701
We didn't really know
until the movie came out.
730
00:47:12,538 --> 00:47:13,747
And we were mixing,
731
00:47:13,956 --> 00:47:16,416
we were mixing up
until the day it was released.
732
00:47:16,959 --> 00:47:19,419
And when we finished,
we went to Hamburger Hamlet
733
00:47:19,503 --> 00:47:22,881
on Hollywood Boulevard, right across
from Grauman's Chinese Theater.
734
00:47:23,090 --> 00:47:25,676
And they say, "Boy,
something's going on out there."
735
00:47:25,884 --> 00:47:27,761
"It must be a premiere or something."
736
00:47:27,845 --> 00:47:31,807
And it wasn't until we walked outside
that we could see that it was Star Wars.
737
00:47:34,393 --> 00:47:36,728
It was like a mob.
They closed the street off.
738
00:47:55,914 --> 00:47:56,999
This is it, boys.
739
00:47:57,708 --> 00:48:03,297
Seeing the final assembled product,
on a giant screen with the sound,
740
00:48:03,839 --> 00:48:05,382
I went, "Wow."
741
00:48:07,926 --> 00:48:12,514
You see the joy that the people
who worked on it had in doing it.
742
00:48:13,849 --> 00:48:16,018
We were little over the top
with some stuff,
743
00:48:16,101 --> 00:48:19,187
and we got to get away with it
because it was a first.
744
00:48:21,148 --> 00:48:26,069
We were invited to the premiere and
everybody was like...
745
00:48:26,153 --> 00:48:27,154
You know.
746
00:48:27,863 --> 00:48:29,448
My parents loved it.
747
00:48:30,657 --> 00:48:33,285
The lighthearted touch was so appealing.
748
00:48:37,289 --> 00:48:40,000
They were lucky to have us
for the visual effects group
749
00:48:40,083 --> 00:48:43,045
because I don't think there was
anybody else in the business
750
00:48:43,128 --> 00:48:44,630
that could have done what we did.
751
00:48:46,965 --> 00:48:48,008
Thank you.
752
00:48:48,675 --> 00:48:52,804
All those guys, every one of them,
did yeoman work.
753
00:48:54,222 --> 00:48:55,349
Everybody pitched in.
754
00:48:55,682 --> 00:48:58,393
Everybody helped each other,
and I appreciated it.
755
00:48:59,144 --> 00:49:04,316
But at the same time, Star Wars
was under duress for the whole production.
756
00:49:04,942 --> 00:49:07,778
Scheduling, money, sets.
757
00:49:11,698 --> 00:49:13,200
I wanted to get it my way,
758
00:49:13,283 --> 00:49:15,702
and I didn't have the time
or the money to do it.
759
00:49:16,954 --> 00:49:22,751
He always said things like,
"If I could wave my magic wand,".
760
00:49:23,251 --> 00:49:28,090
"I would put electrodes in my head
and have the movie made right there."
761
00:49:30,425 --> 00:49:33,720
He used to say that
he only got about 25%
762
00:49:33,804 --> 00:49:36,848
of what he had in his mind
on screen with Star Wars,
763
00:49:36,974 --> 00:49:41,269
which, you know, of course,
was shocking as hell to me
764
00:49:41,353 --> 00:49:45,023
because it looked like 100% to me,
but not George.
765
00:49:45,774 --> 00:49:47,359
He could see through the magic.
766
00:49:49,653 --> 00:49:51,530
I can see all the scotch tape
767
00:49:51,613 --> 00:49:54,074
and the rubber bands
that are holding it together.
768
00:49:56,076 --> 00:49:57,661
But that's how movies get made.
769
00:49:57,744 --> 00:49:59,079
They don't get made right,
770
00:49:59,162 --> 00:50:02,833
they get made the best possible way
under the circumstances.
771
00:50:05,627 --> 00:50:09,548
I thought, "I'm sure we can figure out
a better way to do this."
772
00:50:10,841 --> 00:50:12,718
Maybe I better figure out what it is.